View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #41
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Only in gun-free zones.
    There is some misinformation about concealed carry in Arizona. Yes, concealed carry is an option for anyone who legally owns a gun. No CCW required. However, you knew that was coming, you may not carry concealed in a school zone. Arizona considers day cares to be schools as well as K-12 grade school. Try to drive anywhere near your home or work and not drive through a school zone. In Arizona, if you get pulled over for: failing to stop at a light or sign; speeding; or driving while Mexican, any infraction and you have a conceal weapon you can be in deep caca. If you have a CCW the law permits you to carry in a school zone - not in a school, however.

    In addition most, maybe all, tribal lands do not permit you to have a gun in the car unless it is locked in a case, in the trunk. A CCW will not help you there. So if your driving on the rez or going to a casino you'd be wise to lock it in the trunk BEFORE you reach tribal land. I know a guy who lost his gun to a tribe because in the casino parking lot he took his concealed gun off and locked it in the trunk. Bust by a video cam.

    So for the most part concealed carry is permitted, with restrictions. Having a CCW allows to avoid some of those restrictions.

    To date the concealed carry for legal gun owners law has not been a problem. People said it would be. People whined and moaned that everyone was going to die in shoot outs, but it hasn't happened at all. Those people have been proven wrong.










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  2. #42
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I once had a cop point his Glock at my head.
    Did you drop the stolen HD TV and run back to the riot?










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    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  3. #43
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    if you have committed a felony and a judge has not reinstituted your right to possess firearms, or if you have been institutionalized by a judge.

    the background check is to make sure you don't fall under one of these two categories.
    But where does the constitution say that convicted felons (who have obviously served out their sentence, if they're free) have no second amendment rights? Or indeed the 'institutionalized'? Why are these classes of people denied the right to self-defence? Who decided to place limits on constitutional rights?

    Strangely, I find myself in agreement with Jerry and James on this. If you are a free resident, is it not your constitutional right to bear arms? Background checks seem utterly pointless.

    I don't believe the right to bear arms is a universal human right, but it is clearly a US constitutional right and should not be subject to state or federal laws without a constitutional amendment.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 03-02-12 at 01:49 PM.
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    But where does the constitution say that convicted felons (who have obviously served out their sentence, if they're free) have no second amendment rights? Or indeed the 'institutionalized'? Why are these classes of people denied the right to self-defence? Who decided to place limits on constitutional rights?
    The People. Why do you want folks who have committed robberies & burglaries to own guns?

  5. #45
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    if you have committed a felony and a judge has not reinstituted your right to possess firearms, or if you have been institutionalized by a judge.

    the background check is to make sure you don't fall under one of these two categories.
    There are more than two federal categories (states, local governments can and in some cases do add additional qualifications):

    Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors except where state law reinstates rights, or removes disability.

    Fugitives from justice

    Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs

    Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.

    Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S. or in possession of a hunting license legally issued in the U.S.

    Illegal Aliens

    Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship

    Minors defined as under the age of eighteen for long guns and handguns, with the exception of Vermont, eligible at age sixteen.

    Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)

    Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

    Those who already own firearms would normally be required to relinquish them upon conviction.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  6. #46
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    What is the point of these background checks? Under what circumstances is the state allowed to deny someone their rights under the second amendment? And what does the constitution say about this denial? If the constitution doesn't cover this, why is legislation allowed to trump constitutional rights?
    Background checks help separate those who are inclined to use guns and those who are not so inclined.

    However, I do disagree with the conservative response. I don't think felons who are released, even if time is served, should get free access to guns. The truth is that criminal recidivism is way too high to entrust these people with a tool that can help them commit crimes they are known to commit. Obvious exceptions can be made, such as if you're in prison for insurance fraud or some non-violent crime, but if someone was sent away for assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated anything, rape, etc. your right to ever touch a weapon is forfeit, in my opinion. You are demonstrably untrustworthy for it.

  7. #47
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Background checks help separate those who are inclined to use guns and those who are not so inclined.
    How? If a convicted felon has served their sentence then denying them the same access to self-defence as other citizens is unconstitutional. If an individual has been certified insane, then they should be institutionalised. If they are not so seriously disturbed as to require care and institutionalisation, then denying them the same self-defence as other citizens is unconstitutional.

    However, I do disagree with the conservative response. I don't think felons who are released, even if time is served, should get free access to guns. The truth is that criminal recidivism is way too high to entrust these people with a tool that can help them commit crimes they are known to commit.
    Then you need a constitutional amendment to state that, don't you?

    Obvious exceptions can be made, such as if you're in prison for insurance fraud or some non-violent crime,
    So, does that exception exist?
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  8. #48
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    There are more than two federal categories (states, local governments can and in some cases do add additional qualifications):

    Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors except where state law reinstates rights, or removes disability.

    Fugitives from justice

    Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs

    Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.

    Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S. or in possession of a hunting license legally issued in the U.S.

    Illegal Aliens

    Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship

    Minors defined as under the age of eighteen for long guns and handguns, with the exception of Vermont, eligible at age sixteen.

    Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)

    Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

    Those who already own firearms would normally be required to relinquish them upon conviction.
    Then why are none of these exceptions mentioned in the constitution? Why has no amendment been effected?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  9. #49
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Then why are none of these exceptions mentioned in the constitution? Why has no amendment been effected?
    The People put in new laws. The People have spoken, and they don't want convicted felons, children, non-citizens, folks under indictment, or folks who have been institutionalized in the past, owning firarms.

    why would you?

  10. #50
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    Re: Guns

    I like the background checks to prevent felons and crazy people from getting guns, and I like the waiting periods so that no one can purchase a gun in the heat of passion, or especially to kill themselves in the depths of depression. Beyond that, it's illegal guns that need to be the focus of our efforts. Lawful gun owners are actually pretty responsible people, though many illegal guns are stolen from those lawful owners. That's one major thing that needs addressing. And that's one reason why I support registration of weapons, to help track them and make them harder to steal. Not to hinder legal owners, but to hinder criminals.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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