View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #401
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    I counter that is a fallacy of logic. Crying babies do not cause spoiled milk. You have to get a bigger picture than that. As mentioned above... Chicago and DC also have very strict laws and their crime rates are very high.
    Ive already discusses D.C. Chicago I guess just doesn't have their **** together like NYC does. too bad for them.

  2. #402
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Detroit & Buffalo have been decimated by the shipping of manufacturing jobs overseas, with NOTHING to replace those jobs.

    D.C. has almost ZERO income tax-base. Newark? hell they don't even have a damn Barnes & Nobles.


    Thank you for highlighting my point: crime is more about poverty, unemployment, ineffective law, and gangs/drugs than about guns or gun control.

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  3. #403
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Ive already discusses D.C. Chicago I guess just doesn't have their **** together like NYC does. too bad for them.

    Yet this doesn't prove gun control has anything to do with NYC's lower crime rates.


    Already been over this.... Guiliani's changes in policing were the primary cause for NYC's dramatically lower crime rate... at a cost of pushing the envelope on search and seizure.


    One example is not proof. I've given several.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  4. #404
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I understood that the background checks took time, and had to be done by a law enforcement agency to check for felony convictions, etc. Gun dealers wouldn't have access to those files. If I'm wrong, then I'm fine without the waiting period. I just want a FULL background check, including those with mental illness..
    Instant Background checks take 30 minutes. You do it through a database. I'm not familiar with how it is done exactly, but you can go through your state's database and felons will show up. Now the problem is that if it is fast...it probably won't be a quality check. I think that what needs to be done is a lot of compiling of criminal records into databases. Background checks are multi source checks. So the more centralized information is the better. Speeding up background checks and improving the quality is not just a gun sale priority. Employers need to be able to do this quickly as well...jobs that involve child care, firearms handling, etc.

    Fingerprinting is done through the FBI I am pretty sure and that takes time.

    Let me tell you why I feel that they should go through licensed dealers. We need to be able to track a gun through several owners, so if it ends up back at the scene of a crime, law enforcement has a tool. They should also have to be reported as stolen... law, not optional... and when a licensed gun dealer conducts the private sale, he would have the information available to make certain the gun has not been stolen and the registered owner is indeed the person who legitimately bought the gun.
    They can track a firearm from first bought to next sold. I am pretty sure it is a crime to not report a firearm being stolen though. I have to go for now...but i will finish this later on today. Remind me.
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  5. #405
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I understood that the background checks took time, and had to be done by a law enforcement agency to check for felony convictions, etc. Gun dealers wouldn't have access to those files. If I'm wrong, then I'm fine without the waiting period. I just want a FULL background check, including those with mental illness.

    My feeling is that if a FULL background check is done at purchase, even if it takes a few days, then that gun belongs to that person and he/she should automatically be allowed to carry either open or concealed.

    Let me tell you why I feel that they should go through licensed dealers. We need to be able to track a gun through several owners, so if it ends up back at the scene of a crime, law enforcement has a tool. They should also have to be reported as stolen... law, not optional... and when a licensed gun dealer conducts the private sale, he would have the information available to make certain the gun has not been stolen and the registered owner is indeed the person who legitimately bought the gun.

    You know when storage bins are auctioned off, any firearms found there must be taken to a licensed gun dealer (the auctioneer will do it himself if he sees the weapon) to be registered to the person who bought the bin... same background checks apply. I think that's good. The idea is to track guns, like cars, from owner to owner via serial number. You have to notify the DMV if your automobile is sold or stolen, and when you purchase a car, even a used one. I think guns should be handled the same way.
    It is rules like these that make me shudder. What is a FULL background check?

    So who would have access to your mental health records? The police? great idea.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
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  6. #406
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    the problem is that our gun laws are not uniform throughout the whole country. it is their ununiformity that allows folks to buy lots of guns in a pretty safe area, and sell them to criminals in a more dangerous area that has stronger gun laws.

    strong gun laws that strictly regulate gun sales, are kinda useless when one can simply buy guns across state-lines, and easily bring them over and sell them. we need gun law uniformity.
    Yes. That's why I advocate the 2nd Amendment as written. Some basic federal militia rules and the states could add some value. The amount to laws could be reduced by more than 90%.

  7. #407
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    ...So who would have access to your mental health records? The police? great idea.
    folks who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear.

  8. #408
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    TD, this is a complicated issue. .... My views change. This issue is very fluid..and so are my views on it. Forgive me for not being hard-headed, unable to adjust my views based on new info, sworn to loyalty to my party's platform, unwilling to see things from another perspective.

    I make no apologies.
    I'm Not going to forgive you. And I rather you not ask for it. From my POV you're doing extremely well, esp. compared to me.

  9. #409
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    folks who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear.
    Oh really? Then I suppose since I have nothing to hide I should be okay with the state violating my rights? Inconveniencing me whenever they want while acting outside the proper role of government? Stopping cars willy nilly to search them like Joe Arpaio wants? Oh you folks are having dinner/sex/whatever, too bad we're coming in to look through your ****. Not a problem right? Because the only people who would have a problem with state assrape are criminals with something to hide ya know

    What a bull**** argument posed by those who hate how unsafe they are in freedom, and by authoritarians/cops demanding obedience. I have plenty to fear from people who would buy into such a bull**** argument as that, and use it to defend ridding or violating ones rights. We live, or at least used to, in a country with due process and innocence until proven guilty.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 03-04-12 at 02:17 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  10. #410
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    why in the world would you go to jail in such a situation. if a guy is on your property committing a crime, especially if armed, you have every right to pull on him.
    OK, more detail. I arrived home about 3:00 am, caught him on our property. He ran a short distance and jumped in his car an took off lights off. Then I saw what he had done as I was arriving. I followed him, lights off at a sufficient distance that he thought he lost me. He didn't. I pulled up behind him at his apartment complex. Shooting him there wouldn't have worked for me. Not following him wouldn't have solved the problem we were having.

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