View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

Voters
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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #351
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I was not expecting a pistol to show up pointed at me from 5 feet. I was not expecting him to be armed. I was in a weak position unless I had a pistol pointed at him first. To do so I would have had to have a valid reason. I didn't. I could have been the one going to jail. I don't think he was actually willing to kill me and his behavior was bearing that out. That put him a great risk, but the police arrived in time.
    why in the world would you go to jail in such a situation. if a guy is on your property committing a crime, especially if armed, you have every right to pull on him.

  2. #352
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    these private armies, made up of mostly right-wing crazies, bigots, and extremists, will NEVER be called to do anything for the govt. other than to clean toilets.
    See my post from earlier and tell me if all these people were crazies

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I have to agree with Goshin on this one.

    McVeigh's response, as unfortunate as it was, was intended as a message against the government who had gone after Ruby Ridge and Waco.
    If you think Americans should not worry about their government coming for them...

    Everyone thought Randy Weaver was paranoid, but they came for him.

    Frank Clearwater and Buddy Lamont

    Fred Hampton and Mark Clark

    Kent State

    Molly Maguires

    Whiskey Rebellion

    MOVE

    etc...

    The United States government in no way has its hands clean when it comes to going after people who dared to speak against it. This goes for Federal , State and local entities.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  3. #353
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    that's a great way to disregard the beliefs of those you disagree with: simply tell yourself again & again, that they just care about hassling honest gun owners, and really don't give a **** about reducing crime and the number of innocent deaths in our country.
    In all fairness, your constantly changing what sort of additional hassles you want to impose on gun owners proves that the anti gun types have not really thought out what actually deters criminals. You used to claim that the NYC nonsense was proper, then you wanted registration, then you wanted to limit honest people (criminals can buy not one gun a month legally) to one gun a month etc


    the fact is, the only laws that deter criminals are ones that incarcerate people for using guns in crime because by incarcerating they are in prison. Laws that merely hassle or even penalize honest people only creates contempt for government. TElling me I have to register guns I own etc might make the ARCs happy but since criminals are exempt-under 5th amendment grounds-its a stupid law

  4. #354
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't really have a problem with non-violent, non-crazy adults owning guns. Obviously you need a background check to confirm that they aren't violent and/or crazy. As far as actually CARRYING the weapons...meh. Again, I don't really have a problem with it if the person can prove that they're responsible. I would probably suggest a lengthier background check for this, since a person can be non-violent and non-crazy but still be a complete dip****. To carry a weapon, I'd suggest something akin to a driver's test...if someone can show that they know the basics of firearm safety (and they can pass the background check to get the weapon in the first place), they can carry it if they want.

    That would seem like the most sensible solution to me. I have no interest in taking guns away from people who haven't done anything wrong and just want them for protection and/or sport. But background checks are necessary to make sure that the crazies can't easily get them.

    waiting periods have no proper use--It has been proven time and time again those only get honest people killed and the "heat of the passion" crap has been dismissed dozens of times

  5. #355
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    Re: Guns

    Turtle

    I know you love film. One of the truly great ones is the Steven Spielberg 1993 movie SCHINDLERS LIST. It details how the German Nazi's enacted their policies over the Jews of Poland in the 1930's and 40's. There is a scene near the end where Oskar Schindler is trying very hard to include as many Jews as he can on his list - Jews to be saved from death - and his right hand man - Itzhak Stern explains to him that the list is a pure good. In Jewish culture, this can also be known as a mitzvah, something which is so purely good that there is no negative attached to it.

    Do you believe that the Second Amendment as it is now seen in the USA is a pure good? Or do you see it as something with a good side and a bad side but where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #356
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Turtle

    I know you love film. One of the truly great ones is the Steven Spielberg 1993 movie SCHINDLERS LIST. It details how the German Nazi's enacted their policies over the Jews of Poland in the 1930's and 40's. There is a scene near the end where Oskar Schindler is trying very hard to include as many Jews as he can on his list - Jews to be saved from death - and his right hand man - Itzhak Stern explains to him that the list is a pure good. In Jewish culture, this can also be known as a mitzvah, something which is so purely good that there is no negative attached to it.

    Do you believe that the Second Amendment as it is now seen in the USA is a pure good? Or do you see it as something with a good side and a bad side but where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
    I know what would happen if your beloved party tries to ban guns or severely restrict them

    that would be all bad

    both for the gunowners and the idiots who try to impose such idiocy

  7. #357
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I know what would happen if your beloved party tries to ban guns or severely restrict them

    that would be all bad

    both for the gunowners and the idiots who try to impose such idiocy
    You did NOT answer a direct question. Here it is again:

    Do you believe that the Second Amendment as it is now seen in the USA is a pure good? Or do you see it as something with a good side and a bad side but where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #358
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You did NOT answer a direct question. Here it is again:

    Do you believe that the Second Amendment as it is now seen in the USA is a pure good? Or do you see it as something with a good side and a bad side but where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
    yes it is a pure good. rights are always good-those who ABUSE the rights are bad

    and are you still pretending you are pro second amendment?

  9. #359
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yes it is a pure good. rights are always good-those who ABUSE the rights are bad

    and are you still pretending you are pro second amendment?
    There is the difference between you and me. I do NOT have a religious like zeal about any right or freedom or liberty. I recognize that all rights in a society have to be balanced and considered with the individual rights of others as well as the good of all of society as a whole. This not only applies to the Second Amendment, it applies to ALL rights people have.

    The Second Amendment is included in that.

    I truly am convinced that there are people in America today, and perhaps you are one of these people, who do look at the Second Amendment as a pure good - as a mitzvah - from which nothing bad can evolve. That view is not only foolish in a society of 311 million people it is naive and almost childlike in its approach and simplicity and denial of reality that jumps off the daily newspaper.

    I am pro Second Amendment. I am convinced that - on balance - it does more good for our nation that it does bad for our nation. I am convinced that it benefits more people in our nation that it causes harm or damage to people in our nation. So when I weigh these considerations of practicality and reality, I come down on the side of the Second Amendment. I would NOT abolish it. I would NOT severly limit practical rights that flow from it necessary to carry it out or use it.

    But that does not put me with the pure good firearms advocates that you now admit to being one of. And that does not make me against the Second Amendment because I am not one of you.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-04-12 at 08:50 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  10. #360
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't really have a problem with non-violent, non-crazy adults owning guns. Obviously you need a background check to confirm that they aren't violent and/or crazy. As far as actually CARRYING the weapons...meh. Again, I don't really have a problem with it if the person can prove that they're responsible. I would probably suggest a lengthier background check for this, since a person can be non-violent and non-crazy but still be a complete dip****. To carry a weapon, I'd suggest something akin to a driver's test...if someone can show that they know the basics of firearm safety (and they can pass the background check to get the weapon in the first place), they can carry it if they want.

    That would seem like the most sensible solution to me. I have no interest in taking guns away from people who haven't done anything wrong and just want them for protection and/or sport. But background checks are necessary to make sure that the crazies can't easily get them.
    You have basically stated the Florida laws.

    Background check.
    Waiting period (that I disagree with)
    In-depth background check for CCW
    Firearms safety class for CCW

    Florida's CCW is valid in about 40 states.

    Additionally, "the gun show loophole" is not an issue here. The same background checks are required. Even tho I have a CCW, when I purchase a firearm they still run a check thru FDLE (Florida dept of law enforcement). If you do not have a CCW, you still have a waiting period.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

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