View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #321
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    the 2nd Amendment, the Constitution, and the various Militia Acts, discuss the only legal Militia that has ever existed in the USA. The "citizen Militias" are nothing more than a bunch of paranoid nuts petting their long, hard weapons.
    not at all - the Founders were quite clear (as I have pointed out) that the militia is considered a "bottom up" organization that flows from the people (the whole people except for a few public officials), not a top-down organization that requires the blessing of government. That would rather defeat one of it's chief purposes.

  2. #322
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    that's a great way to disregard the beliefs of those you disagree with: simply tell yourself again & again, that they just care about hassling honest gun owners, and really don't give a **** about reducing crime and the number of innocent deaths in our country.
    we absolutely do care deeply about those things. That is why we want as many law abiding people as possible to be responsibly armed. criminals respond to incentives as much as anyone else - to include the disencentive of a potentially armed not-so-willing victim.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-04-12 at 12:56 AM.

  3. #323
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not at all - the Founders were quite clear (as I have pointed out) that the militia is considered a "bottom up" organization that flows from the people (the whole people except for a few public officials), not a top-down organization that requires the blessing of government. That would rather defeat one of it's chief purposes.
    meanwhile, the Constitution, the 2nd Amendment, and the Militia Act of 1792 make it very clear that The Militia was a government regulated, disciplined, instructed, and organized group.

  4. #324
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we absolutely do care deeply about those things. That is why we want as many law abiding people as possible to be responsibly armed.
    and WE want to make sure that the only folks who possess guns, are ones who have a legal right to do so.

  5. #325
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    that's a great way to disregard the beliefs of those you disagree with: simply tell yourself again & again, that they just care about hassling honest gun owners, and really don't give a **** about reducing crime and the number of innocent deaths in our country.
    It is not about "hassling" gun owners, it is about applying restrictions on people who seek to legally own guns who have that right, according to the second amendment as interpreted by SCOTUS.

    If "The" miltia was irrelevant, SCOTUS would have determined so.

    Undoubtedly some think that the Second Amendment is outmoded in a society where our standing army is the pride of our Nation, where well-trained police forces provide personal security, and where gun violence is a serious problem. That is perhaps debatable, but what is not debatable is that it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct.

    Justice Antonin Scalia, for the majority in District of Columbia v Heller (U. S. Supreme Court 2008)

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  6. #326
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we absolutely do care deeply about those things. That is why we want as many law abiding people as possible to be responsibly armed. criminals respond to incentives as much as anyone else - to include the disencentive of a potentially armed not-so-willing victim.
    I've used this personal example here before, but it fits yet again. A couple of years ago I was pulled over at the convenience store I frequent, I was finishing up something paper related but I noticed a little plug in the car to my right with his eyes glued on me with that "should I try something" look on his face. Well, I decided he was glaring a little too long so I rolled the window down and said "I am armed and have no problem shooting a criminal, stop eyeballin' me", anything he possibly thought about doing was out the window, he looked at his steering wheel from that point on, looked like he pissed himself a little too. Some people would call that an over the top reaction, but there was no pull, and no further incident after that, I'd say that was a perfectly valid non-use defense.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #327
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    It is not about "hassling" gun owners, it is about applying restrictions on people who seek to legally own guns who have that right, according to the second amendment as interpreted by SCOTUS.

    If "The" miltia was irrelevant, SCOTUS would have determined so.
    the last two gun-related cases were ruled 5 to 4.

    this is about making sure that folks who buy guns, have the legal right to buy guns, aren't going to sell them on the street, and aren't mentally unfit to own a firearm.

  8. #328
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    meanwhile, the Constitution, the 2nd Amendment, and the Militia Act of 1792 make it very clear that The Militia was a government regulated, disciplined, instructed, and organized group.
    A militia does not have to be an arm of the government.
    Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), stated:
    Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer to anything other than an individual right. What is more, in all six other provisions of the Constitution that mention “the people,” the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset. This contrasts markedly with the phrase “the militia” in the prefatory clause. As we will describe below, the “militia” in colonial America consisted of a subset of “the people”— those who were male, able bodied, and within a certain age range. Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms” in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the people”
    n Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  9. #329
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    A militia does not have to be an arm of the government....
    tell that to Article 1 Section 8 of the United States Constitution.

    tell that to the Militia Act of 1792, made law AFTER the 2nd Amendment was passed.

  10. #330
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    the last two gun-related cases were ruled 5 to 4.

    this is about making sure that folks who buy guns, have the legal right to buy guns, aren't going to sell them on the street, and aren't mentally unfit to own a firearm.
    Ok, then what does make you "mentally unfit" to own a gun?

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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