View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #131
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post

    And as far as teh gun thing goes...I wasn't sure of your position. I just wanted to clarify it.


    This is my position: I support the right to own and carry arms for all free legal citizens, regardless of past history. I think that felons should have the right of gun ownership after they have paid their debt to society for their crimes, and I think that if the justice system is failing, by letting dangerous criminals loose, that the justice system needs to be fixed, not the 2nd amendment altered to accomodate the failings of the justice system.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #132
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    sorry, but I don't think untreated paranoid schizophrenics who hallucinate and think everyone is trying to kill them, should be allowed to own firearms.
    That was more a facetious statement, mainly used to highlight the point that those "paranoid schizos" with guns trying to take our rights, would be facing a non paranoid populace with plenty of firearms that want to keep their rights.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  3. #133
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    This is my position: I support the right to own and carry arms for all free legal citizens, regardless of past history. I think that felons should have the right of gun ownership after they have paid their debt to society for their crimes, and I think that if the justice system is failing, by letting dangerous criminals loose, that the justice system needs to be fixed, not the 2nd amendment altered to accomodate the failings of the justice system.
    See this is where I differ. Our penetentary system is very much a failing system. It is essentially basic training for criminals. Felons are more likely to come out more dangerous than when they went in. I have no issue with the laws, but I also feel that by the act of committing a felony, you have violated the social contract. That violation means your rights (to a certain extent) are void. That means rights like firearms, voting, etc. Certain other rights are a little excessive, but for people like pedophiles, rapists, and violent offenders it is better to air on the side of caution.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  4. #134
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Then this seems to significantly undermine the authority of the constitution, doesn't it? This being the case then how can one argue that other constitutional rights cannot be conditioned by the application of subsequent legislation? A Bill of Rights doesn't seem to mean so much in that case.
    Yes, sir. I would agree with you. There are many, many, many instances where the Constitution is circumvented. I'm no Constitutional lawyer or historian, but I would say to you that wherever the Constitution is circumvented it is decidedly not to the benefit of the People of the United States.

    A quick example is the fact that the Constitution states that only Congress shall declare war. There is a great reason for that and it is the People who benefit from it. I could explain in detail, but I don't want to divert the thread. Since Vietman, however, Congress has permitted circumvention of the Constitution and has allowed the President to make the determination as long - and this is key - as the Congress can be assured plausible deniability. The circumvention clearly does not benefit the People of the United States, Congress, however gains a great deal from it.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

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  5. #135
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

    It does not state "only the right of those without a past criminal action", or "only the right of those whom we deem worthy". It says the right shall not be infringed.
    I would like to say that Arizona statute upholds the Constitution in that the "right shall not be infringed" to bear arms. State statute prevents seizure of legally owned firearms even in a declared state of martial law. I like that. I like it a lot.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  6. #136
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by cthomp View Post
    I'm not sure what your position is but come on man. Do you expect people to just casually carry rifles and shotguns through the streets? And you say it yourself a rifle or shotgun can kill someone just as easily as a shotgun or rifle so why would anyone carry something bigger and heavier?
    There is a great deal involved in your question, cthomp. Where I live you can open carry. I see it all the time. No big deal at all. I prefer concealed carry, but that's my choice. I've never seen anyone carrying a shotgun or a rifle into Lowe's Hardware, though I have seen guys open carry. My guess is if you walked into most public places with a shotgun you'd get a great deal of attention and rightfully so. Same with a rifle. It's not illegal, but it is something you don't often see.

    Self defense in public with shotguns and rifles is a bit weird. If I'm a bad guy with a hidden gun in some public place the first thing I'd do would be to shoot the guy with the shotgun, by surprise. That wouldn't be as much of a concern to me as the number of people who I couldn't identify as carrying concealed weapons.

    You can legally open carry shotguns and rifles in Arizona, but they must be in a holster or a scabbard. Makes sense, no? Carry a shotgun or a rifle for defense in public? Generally not smart.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  7. #137
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And how much would all that cost?
    What I suggested? It wouldn't cost much. That's basically the system that's in place in Michigan, and it doesn't seem to be bankrupting anyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Great to see that people see that rights should be curtailed to the point of making them functionally pointless.
    I'm sure some people do, I'm not one of them though.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  8. #138
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    Re: Guns

    I'm not saying it is bad. Just strange. A handgun is more convenient and just easier to deal with.

  9. #139
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    We have done amazing things with technology. I'm sure that if there is a big enough market for them we can get gun manufacturers to make a rifle or a shotgun ideal for female use. And we can also get women to get used to using firearms too.

    If women can get used to driving and having careers then theyy can get used to pulling a trigger.

    Of course women can get used to firearms, including rifles.... I sometimes get paid for teaching them these things.

    But you're missing the point. Rifles and shotguns are very INCONVENIENT things to lug around as a self-defense weapon. Generally it is only done in certain places, like certain parts of Israel, where the odds of needing serious firepower are HIGH.

    Also, they are not concealable; they are obvious. In many situations this is potentially a tactical disadvantage.

    If a woman is managing three kids and a shopping cart, a small handgun in her pocket or purse is not only a lot more reasonable, convenient and useable, but SAFER. "Let's see, I'll carry little Joseph on my left side and sling my AR on my right shoulder... but then I can't hold Cindy-Lu's hand as we cross the street... dammit!"

    Not only is a concealed handgun SAFER and handier, it is more TACTICALLY DEPLOYABLE than a long-gun on a sling. There are basically two ways to sling a long gun.... where it is tactically handy but you have to keep a hand on it or it will fall off your shoulder at some point.... or where it is secure and won't fall off your shoulder but getting it into action is going to take a few seconds and be a bit awkward. Well, there's also center-point sling but then you get a big long gun swinging around in front of you unless you hold it with one hand or something.

    You're a smart fellow, Sam, just face the facts: there are reasons why handguns are the weapon of choice for most civilian self-defense, other than home defense. (and even then there are times a handgun is better, such as when clearing a corridor or stairwell but that's another topic...)

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  10. #140
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    This is my position: I support the right to own and carry arms for all free legal citizens, regardless of past history. I think that felons should have the right of gun ownership after they have paid their debt to society for their crimes, and I think that if the justice system is failing, by letting dangerous criminals loose, that the justice system needs to be fixed, not the 2nd amendment altered to accomodate the failings of the justice system.

    Amen.

    Jerkwad criminals get away with too many crimes before getting serious time. Then they get out early too often and have generally not undergone any real "reform".

    We shouldn't be letting people OUT of prison in the FIRST place unless we think they are SAFE to be out in society as normal citizens.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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