View Poll Results: What do you think gun control should be like?

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  • Let everyone have a gun

    26 26.53%
  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    28 28.57%
  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    12 12.24%
  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    19 19.39%
  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    5 5.10%
  • No guns at all

    8 8.16%
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Thread: Guns

  1. #1081
    global liberation

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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But we do just that. And examples have been given and you accept those as true.
    I edtied to: limit the legitimate rights of some due to others possibly being irresponsible. We must keep the context of legitimate rights being limited, and not lose context to 'all rights have limits'. 'All rights have limits' is obvious. Wtf would that be debating? Do you honestly think you need to explain how rights are limited to people? Are you being intentionally obtuse?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-10-12 at 08:23 AM.

  2. #1082
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I edtied to: limit the legitimate rights of some due to others possible being irresponsible.
    I imagine you and I could discuss for hours what is a legitimate right and what constitutes irresponsibility. The fact is a simple one: we limit rights that are presented to us as without limits in the Bill of Rights. Examples have already been provided and accepted.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    But we have repeated examples of Congress making laws which abridge the freedom of speech and press and we accept them as necessary and proper.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-10-12 at 08:27 AM.
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  3. #1083
    global liberation

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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I imagine you and I could discuss for hours what is a legitimate right and what constitutes irresponsibility.
    I don't think so, because of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The intended use of the gun is to fire a projectile at a target. A gun used in a crime is not misuse.
    That's disconnected from reality. Good day.

  4. #1084
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't think so, because of this:



    That's disconnected from reality. Good day.
    No it is not disconnected from reality. The purpose of a gun is to fire a projectile. One could also say the purpose is to use the gun to get what you want short of actual firing of the projectile as a threat to do so.

    The very purpose of a gun is to shoot at others. It was invented for that purpose. That is its intended usage. You need not shy away from that reality. It is what it is.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-10-12 at 10:35 AM.
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  5. #1085
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    My job pays pretty good, but the guns weren't that expensive. The Springfield had the highest price-tag at $950 with 100 rounds of target load and 20 rounds of silver-tipped hollow point for my carry load (I don't carry extra ammo normally). If the store had the laser site I wanted they could have separated me from even more money.

    The cheapest was the .22 rifle at $190, and a box of 500 rounds was pretty cheap.



    The Glock just feels like a chunk of plastic carved out to resemble a 2x4, and the angle of the grip is awkward.
    Still more coin than I got lol.

    But yea the Glocks are blocky for sure. I carry an XD SC, but I have no issue with a Glock. Sometimes a 2x4 is a good thing to have because it is as tough as nails and won't jam lol. But i reckon it all comes down to preference.
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  6. #1086
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Goshin
    the other day you admitted that I was correct in stating that the Second Amendment is not a pure good. That was the simple point in this exercise. Go back and read the exchange. Captain America sees it clearly.
    Hardly anything is an unmitigated, unmodified, unadulterated pure good. Cars aren't. Electricity isn't. Most medicines are not. Government certainly isn't. Yet most of us would not wish to do without these things, no?

    There is no sense in talking about an America with ZERO guns unless you have a viable plan how to get there. Hint: there isn't one. There are more guns in the USA today than there are people, and many of them pre-date records-keeping laws (are unregistered in any way). To get rid of 80% would require draconian laws and totalitarian enforcement.... to get rid of 100% would require the magic of the One Ring.

    It is a fantasy and a pointless discussion.


    But EVEN IF we stipulated such a thing.... people were killing people long before guns. Before guns, if you were old, or female, or physically weak, or lacked the free time to study the intense disciplines of fighting with edged weapons and bows, you were at a grave disadvantage compared to those who could. This is why knights dominated peasants for so long. Guns are a major good in that they levelled the playing field of violence.... "all men were created equal, Sam Colt made them that way."

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  7. #1087
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hardly anything is an unmitigated, unmodified, unadulterated pure good. Cars aren't. Electricity isn't. Most medicines are not. Government certainly isn't. Yet most of us would not wish to do without these things, no?

    There is no sense in talking about an America with ZERO guns unless you have a viable plan how to get there. Hint: there isn't one. There are more guns in the USA today than there are people, and many of them pre-date records-keeping laws (are unregistered in any way). To get rid of 80% would require draconian laws and totalitarian enforcement.... to get rid of 100% would require the magic of the One Ring.

    It is a fantasy and a pointless discussion.


    But EVEN IF we stipulated such a thing.... people were killing people long before guns. Before guns, if you were old, or female, or physically weak, or lacked the free time to study the intense disciplines of fighting with edged weapons and bows, you were at a grave disadvantage compared to those who could. This is why knights dominated peasants for so long. Guns are a major good in that they levelled the playing field of violence.... "all men were created equal, Sam Colt made them that way."
    glad we agree.
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  8. #1088
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Thunder, one would think so, hey? But honestly, and trust me on this, an honest man can get a gun easier illegally than he can legally. That holds true for the criminal. Ii would venture to say that even if the criminal COULD obtain a gun legally, they would opt for the illegal purchase because it's just much easier to do. And getting one legally ain't THAT hard. But illegal guns are still easier to obtain.

    That's the irony. The guy who wants to do it right has to go through the line. The guys who don't give a **** about rules and regulations goes to the streets. No line in the street and it's usually cheaper. Sad but true bro.
    Sounds a lot like the immigration problem. It's pretty easy to jump the boarder, but if you want in legitimately then you'll be waiting in line, up to your neck in paperwork for years.

  9. #1089
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    Re: Guns

    It's a beautiful, warm, clear day today....I wonder how many anti-gun nuts I'll be carrying my .45 around, when my boys and I go to the park here in a little bit. Wouldn't it be great if I happened across a few anti-gunners talking about how 'dangerous' it is to carry a firearm 'around all those children'.....never realizing that the guy chasing his kids on the slide is packing heat.

  10. #1090
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    Re: Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I have only purchased 4 new guns in the last 10 years.
    then this law in Va would not have effected you one bit.

    however, if your occupation is buying lots o' guns in Virginia and selling them to pimps & thieves in NYC, your occupation just got a lot easier.

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