View Poll Results: Which of these political leans would Jesus be?

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  • Liberal

    58 47.15%
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    14 11.38%
  • Moderate

    10 8.13%
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Thread: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Of the possible choices, his teachings most closely resemble Liberalism. But none are adequate, since they're political.

    I do know that if he returned today, the Cons would crucify him again.
    That's a genuinely disgusting claim. And you don't know squat.

    Threads such as this make me crazy. Jesus didn't evidence any interest at all in politics; He was interested in the individual and that individual's relationship to the Creator.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    That's a genuinely disgusting claim. And you don't know squat.

    Threads such as this make me crazy. Jesus didn't evidence any interest at all in politics; He was interested in the individual and that individual's relationship to the Creator.
    And that's a genuinely ignorant post. And I know a great many things.

    I did say that none of the options were applicable, since they're political (and hence about power).

    Still, Conservatism's focus on individuality, ownership and punishment pretty much flies in the face of Jesus' message. There was nothing whatever Conservative about Christ. Christ preached selflessness and charity. Of turning the other cheek.

    Not personal profit and revenge.
    Last edited by NoC_T; 04-07-12 at 09:48 AM.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So you are suggesting Republicans want a theocracy basically and they must pursue this or they are not being Christians?. You do realize that is absolute nonsense. You are trying to lump conservative Christians as if they are clones, all thinking in lock step. It does not work like that. Painting with such a huge brush is bigotry at it's finest. Then in the same breath you say you do not believe in legislating morality?

    "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
    I suggested nothing of the sort. I have no idea where you drew that conclusion. I was only making the argument that when you ask Republicans what is Christian about their political philosophy their stands on abortion and homosexuality are often the first examples cited. I am arguing such are bad examples as they are but selective morality. After all, if you want to legislate to Christian morality, shouldn't we have laws outlawing divorce and greed? Each of those were very explicitly talked about by Christ (while abortion and homosexuality were not). The Cons never suggest that those things should be legislated against. Instead, they pick and chose their morality. There is nothing Christian about that. In fact, I am not sure what it is about the Cons doctrine that is found in the Gospel. I am not certain what broad brush you think I am painting. If you dispute my assertions, then please offer an example of clear Cons doctrine that is also something that Christ spoke about, but the other side of the political aisle does not....

    Nice quote of Christ's challenge of self righteousness, but I wasn't attempting to be self righteous, just arguing that I think the political philosophy on one party is better aligned with the teachings of Christ than the other. Rather than argument, you bring insults and insolence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now you are sitting in judgement of who is or is not a "strong" Christian? You are basing this on a question you feel I am not getting? Good thing the lord knows my heart and not you as you are ready to condemn me.

    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.[/b]"
    I agree. But I wasn't judging you. That is not my place. Yes, its easy to be self-righteous, but its wrong and I try not to do that. Instead, it is a simple matter of probability: There aren't very many strong Christians out there and even less that really know their Bible. Its a pretty small chance that I would be actually engaging one. OTH, the fact that you don't see the integration of your theology into your political philosophy, given that a strong Christian would be, in all matters, about things that glorify God, ... is some evidence that I am more likely dealing with a majority member rather than a minority one...again, not a judgment, but just trying to understand the situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have got to be kidding? Please point out where in the Gospels it talks about Jesus getting involved in Roman politics, or him telling his disciples to do so? In fact in 1st Peter it says submit yourself's to every ordinance and so on...

    "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme, or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king."
    Excuse me? Everyone of my posts acknowledged that Christ was a political. He never once told people to lead an insurrection against Rome; but rather taught of being content with your station in life. I am not now, nor will I ever, argue that Jesus was a liberal or conservative, nor did he tell us to be one way or the other. He taught us about righteous living and glorifying God.

    We are to do these things in all matters of our being..... now, unlike 1st century Rome, where political matters were more about insurrection, 21st century America has afforded its citizens choice...choice, that when exercised does not defy authority, but rather is authority. Our citizens have a political responsibility that those that sat in the crowd hearing Christ did not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well you have some real studying to do then. Because you are casting stones, big ones. So only Republicans do this huh? Do you really want to go there? Or do you want to back track and confess your political hackery right now?
    Republicans tend to think of Evangelical Christians as their base and play to them. I yet to figure out why the Evangelicals get played, but I think it is personal corruption within their ranks that is seduced by the sin of political power. Yes, the other side plays religion a bit, but to a much lesser extent. Rarely does one speak of or here about large religious contingents that are associated as liberals and played to by the party. This is not political hackery; just a statement articulating the obvious.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    What???? Secondary????

    “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
    Again, this is the first commandment of righteous living. Christ's first purpose was to tell us of God's promise of salvation and the Kingdom. Substantially all of his ministry was about this. However, he also taught us about gaining access to the Kingdom, which is everything to do with the acceptance of God's offer of salvation. The concept of being "Born Again" is the acceptance of this offer of salvation and the giving up of the self for Christ. In surrendering ourselves to Christ, we need lessons on righteous living. On that subject, Christ quotes Deuteronomy 6:5 "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. " and then Leviticus 19:18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. "

    Again, Christ came to fulfill God's promise of a Savior and be the reconciliation of God to man, so that by and through him we might find eternal life. That was his primary purpose. Telling us how to live righteous lives (largely by validating and upholding the scriptures) was secondary.... as, after all, man can not gain entry to the Kingdom by merely leading a righteous life; that is not within his ability. The Greatest Commandment is, in fact, not solely relevant as adhering to it, in and of itself, will not be sufficient for salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now we can include prideful. Keep going.
    That probably did come off a bit too much that way.... on this point we can agree and I can offer you my apologies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Hehehehehehe!

    This is such political hackery man it is not even worth addressing. I will leave you with this...

    15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?” 18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?” 21 “Caesar’s,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” 22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
    OK... let me say this for the 7th time... since the previous 6 times you either did not read or did not comprehend:


    Everyone of my posts acknowledged that Christ was apolitical. He never once told people to lead an insurrection against Rome; but rather taught of being content with your station in life. I am not now, nor will I ever, argue that Jesus was a liberal or conservative, nor did he tell us to be one way or the other. He taught us about righteous living and glorifying God.

    We are to do these things in all matters of our being..... now, unlike 1st century Rome, where political matters were more about insurrection, 21st century America has afforded its citizens choice...choice, that when exercised does not defy authority, but rather is authority. Our citizens have a political responsibility that those that sat in the crowd hearing Christ did not.


    Its not an argument to argue with the very thing we agree on.... Christ was apolitical and did not teach us to be political. You continue to miss the nuance that Christians are to glorify Christ in our hearts, thoughts and soul... thus actions. Yes, this is the foundation of righteous living which should manifest itself in everything we do...including our vote.

    I remain convinced that the political philosophy of the Democratic party is more closely aligned to the JOY teaching of Christ than that of the party on the other side of the aisle. Interesting, that you began with a challenge to tear apart the notion that one side was better aligned with the teachings of Christ than the other, yet did no such thing. You attacked the premise and attacked the areas we agree on (interesting), but offered no such challenge to the assertion that the Democratic philosophy (the philosophy rather than its people or its implementation) is more closely aligned to the teachings of Christ (at least as far as righteous living) than that of the other side. Again, I think the original poll is telling, given the overwhelming number of people at DP that see Christ as a liberal.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 04-07-12 at 11:44 AM.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Liberal, of course...as are all the other fictional characters I think of...

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Was Jesus more about personal responsibility, autonomy, and accountability, or about duty to one's community/fellow man?

    That's the distinction between conservatives and liberals who are not complete hacks, IMO.
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I suggested nothing of the sort. I have no idea where you drew that conclusion. I was only making the argument that when you ask Republicans what is Christian about their political philosophy their stands on abortion and homosexuality are often the first examples cited. I am arguing such are bad examples as they are but selective morality. After all, if you want to legislate to Christian morality, shouldn't we have laws outlawing divorce and greed? Each of those were very explicitly talked about by Christ (while abortion and homosexuality were not). The Cons never suggest that those things should be legislated against. Instead, they pick and chose their morality. There is nothing Christian about that. In fact, I am not sure what it is about the Cons doctrine that is found in the Gospel. I am not certain what broad brush you think I am painting. If you dispute my assertions, then please offer an example of clear Cons doctrine that is also something that Christ spoke about, but the other side of the political aisle does not....
    You are saying "all cons and Republicans" like we are all the same? I am not even a Republican although I am a conservative. That is painting with a large brush.

    As far as homosexuality and abortion, abortion is considered murder by many which is strictly forbidden. Homosexuality is also condemned by Paul, the OT and Jesus defined marriage as one man with a woman, period. They at the time did not use the term "homosexuality" but kind of hard to misinterpret "a man shall not lie with a man." Many Christians no matter which political philosophy you are talking about would like to see divorce and adultery punishable in some way. Fortunately Jesus was preaching spiritual salvation and the best way to build up your gifts in heaven, not enforced morals via government. Members of both party's do this, so again trying to point out the spec is all you are doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Nice quote of Christ's challenge of self righteousness, but I wasn't attempting to be self righteous, just arguing that I think the political philosophy on one party is better aligned with the teachings of Christ than the other. Rather than argument, you bring insults and insolence.
    Just from this post...

    There aren't very many strong Christians out there and even less that really know their Bible. Its a pretty small chance that I would be actually engaging one.

    I yet to figure out why the Evangelicals get played, but I think it is personal corruption within their ranks that is seduced by the sin of political power.

    OK... let me say this for the 7th time... since the previous 6 times you either did not read or did not comprehend:


    It's funny, I know I come of self righteous because I am. You still however cannot see the moat in your own eye?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I agree. But I wasn't judging you. It is a simple matter of probability: There aren't very many strong Christians out there and even less that really know their Bible. Its a pretty small chance that I would be actually engaging one. OTH, the fact that you don't see the integration of your theology into your political philosophy, given that a strong Christian would be, in all matters, about things that glorify God, ... is evidence that I am more likely dealing with a majority member rather than a minority one.
    You have got to be kidding? That is not judging???? I don't even have to respond. Read it back to yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Excuse me? Everyone of my posts acknowledged that Christ was a political. He never once told people to lead an insurrection against Rome; but rather taught of being content with your station in life. I am not now, nor will I ever, argue that Jesus was a liberal or conservative, nor did he tell us to be one way or the other. He taught us about righteous living and glorifying God.
    And yet you are trying to argue that liberals are somehow closer to God because they want to steal from the rich to give to the poor basically. Sorry, he did not teach that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    We are to do these things in all matters of our being..... now, unlike 1st century Rome, where political matters were more about insurrection, 21st century America has afforded its citizens choice...choice, that when exercised does not defy authority, but rather is authority. Our citizens have a political responsibility that those that sat in the crowd hearing Christ did not.
    Yes they do. And each man is allowed to make his own choices and make his own peace with God without judgmental... ahem, people trying to say I am a better Christian because I am liberal. That is just so anti everything Jesus stood for.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Republicans tend to think of Evangelical Christians as their base and play to them. I yet to figure out why the Evangelicals get played, but I think it is personal corruption within their ranks that is seduced by the sin of political power.
    Based on what? Your opinion? The fact is you have no idea what is in there hearts, period. You keep saying you are not judging but you are doing exactly that. So much so you come off more like a Unitarian than a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yes, the other side plays religion a bit, but to a much lesser extent. Rarely does one speak of or here about large religious contingents that are associated as liberals and played to by the party. This is not political hackery; just a statement articulating the obvious.
    Obviously you have never been to a black or Hispanic church around election time.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Again, this is the first commandment of righteous living. Christ's first purpose was to tell us of God's promise of salvation and the Kingdom. Substantially all of his ministry was about this. However, he also taught us about gaining access to the Kingdom, which is everything to do with the acceptance of God's offer of salvation. The concept of being "Born Again" is the acceptance of this offer of salvation and the giving up of the self for Christ. In surrendering ourselves to Christ, we need lessons on righteous living. On that subject, Christ quotes Deuteronomy 6:5 "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. " and then Leviticus 19:18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. "

    Again, Christ came to fulfill God's promise of a Savior and be the reconciliation of God to man, so that by and through him we might find eternal life. That was his primary purpose. Telling us how to live righteous lives (largely by validating and upholding the scriptures) was secondary.... as, after all, man can not gain entry to the Kingdom by merely leading a righteous life; that is not within his ability. The Greatest Commandment is, in fact, not solely relevant as adhering to it, in and of itself, will not be sufficient for salvation.
    OK. I will agree to disagree. I think you are confusing what he was teaching then, with what he wants for us now.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    That probably did come off a bit too much that way.... on this point we can agree and I can offer you my apologies.
    No probably, lol. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    OK... let me say this for the 7th time... since the previous 6 times you either did not read or did not comprehend:


    Everyone of my posts acknowledged that Christ was apolitical. He never once told people to lead an insurrection against Rome; but rather taught of being content with your station in life. I am not now, nor will I ever, argue that Jesus was a liberal or conservative, nor did he tell us to be one way or the other. He taught us about righteous living and glorifying God.
    We are to do these things in all matters of our being..... now, unlike 1st century Rome, where political matters were more about insurrection, 21st century America has afforded its citizens choice...choice, that when exercised does not defy authority, but rather is authority. Our citizens have a political responsibility that those that sat in the crowd hearing Christ did not.


    Its not an argument to argue with the very thing we agree on.... Christ was apolitical and did not teach us to be political. You continue to miss the nuance that Christians are to glorify Christ in our hearts, thoughts and soul... thus actions. Yes, this is the foundation of righteous living which should manifest itself in everything we do...including our vote.

    I remain convinced that the political philosophy of the Democratic party is more closely aligned to the JOY teaching of Christ than that of the party on the other side of the aisle. Interesting, that you began with a challenge to tear apart the notion that one side was better aligned with the teachings of Christ than the other, yet did no such thing. You attacked the premise and attacked the areas we agree on (interesting), but offered no such challenge to the assertion that the Democratic philosophy (the philosophy rather than its people or its implementation) is more closely aligned to the teachings of Christ (at least as far as righteous living) than that of the other side. Again, I think the original poll is telling, given the overwhelming number of people at DP that see Christ as a liberal.
    OK what does the democratic party stand for?
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    He would be a moderate....He said on his sermon on the mount render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render under unto God what is God's.
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    He would be a moderate....He said on his sermon on the mount render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render under unto God what is God's.
    That makes him a moderate how?


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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    He would be a moderate....He said on his sermon on the mount render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render under unto God what is God's.
    Jesus spoke of what we now regard as the "Beatitudes" in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) but spoke to the Pharisees at another time about rending unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (Matthew 22).

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    hmmm.... except, upsidedown, conservatives are happier than liberals....

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