View Poll Results: Which of these political leans would Jesus be?

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  • Liberal

    58 47.15%
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    14 11.38%
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    10 8.13%
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    41 33.33%
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Thread: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

  1. #471
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So what do you suggest? We no longer support or morals and beliefs and accept yours and yours alone? Each person has a moral compass that is distinctly their own and no matter where it comes from it is their right to follow it as they see fit.
    I suggest not being hypocritical when imposing or trying to impose your beliefs on an entire nation. Jesus taught to feed and care for the poor, but Christians like Rick Santorum don't support forcing us all the care about the poor. He does support imposing his Christian values on us all by wanting to ban porn and gay marriage however. It's simply not consist.

    If Christians as a whole, didn't try to ban porn based on their religious values, and weren't trying to ban gay marriage based on their religious values... then arguing that Jesus didn't propose government force to help the poor, would be a fair argument to make and I'd respect people actually making for a change.

    Please name a person who is politically active who does not want to makes laws as they see fit? Or force the laws they want to see on society? Yea, look in the mirror.
    Yeah, well, I don't do it in the name of religion. For those doing it in the name of religion, it's really ironic that want to make laws restricting gay rights, access to porn, alcohol, etc. etc., but stop when it comes to policies forcing us all to help the poor.

    No. They are picking and choosing which laws THEY want to fight which is their right as American citizens. Has nothing to with fighting anything for Jesus. Some may see it that way, and they would be wrong as well.
    We're not talking about American citizens. We're specifically talking about Christian, Americans, and yeah, they have the right to be hypocritical when it comes to imposing their belief system on others too. I also have a right to point the hypocrisy out.

  2. #472
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I suggest not being hypocritical when imposing or trying to impose your beliefs on an entire nation. Jesus taught to feed and care for the poor, but Christians like Rick Santorum don't support forcing us all the care about the poor. He does support imposing his Christian values on us all by wanting to ban porn and gay marriage however. It's simply not consist.
    It is absolutely consistent. Jesus taught us to care for the poor and give with a gracious heart. Not to take money by force and give it to someone else. Nothing hypocritical about it at all. Before you sit in judgement you should actually learn a little more about what he taught.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    If Christians as a whole, didn't try to ban porn based on their religious values, and weren't trying to ban gay marriage based on their religious values... then arguing that Jesus didn't propose government force to help the poor, would be a fair argument to make and I'd respect people actually making for a change.
    It is a stupid argument and I have already explained why.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Yeah, well, I don't do it in the name of religion. For those doing it in the name of religion, it's really ironic that want to make laws restricting gay rights, access to porn, alcohol, etc. etc., but stop when it comes to policies forcing us all to help the poor.
    Again really dumb argument I have already covered. Repeating it will not make it any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    We're not talking about American citizens. We're specifically talking about Christian, Americans, and yeah, they have the right to be hypocritical when it comes to imposing their belief system on others too. I also have a right to point the hypocrisy out.
    So Christians are not American citizens? Again you repeat the same tired argument I have already debunked. Nothing hypocritical about it. The only thing hypocritical here is you want one standard for Christians and one for others. Law does not work that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  3. #473
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No he was not. He fully supported the OT and all it's laws, period. What he was against were the pharisees who pretended to be pious but had no real faith.
    Jesus argued with rabbis and was accused of blasphemy, and was nearly stoned to death. Are you familiar with the story of his persecution and execution? The entire religious community wasn't exactly on his side. He worked on Sunday, healing people, he touched lepers, and did many other things they condemned to boot.

    You are making incorrect assumption's:

    Matthew 10:34-36 - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."

    Luke 12:51,52 - "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three..."

    (Luke 22:36) - "And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."

    The peace Jesus was bringing was a personal faith not your "worldly" definition.
    Jesus did not propose war. There were many anti Roman, and pro Israel militias in his day. He didn't join any of them, and from my understanding, he was opposed to them. I'd say that Jesus was peaceful by my worldly definition. He wasn't violent, nor did he promote violence or holy war against Rome. His message did create conflict, but he wasn't teaching conflict and war as a value in those verses.

    John 14:27 - "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.



    And it would be wrong as he was not political at all.



    You mean like he changed the old one's?

    Matthew 5:18 - I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

    He would not change God's law which is his law.
    I know he didn't claim to change God's law. You totally missed my point. He wasn't arguing with rabbis against God's laws. He was arguing with their perception, teachings, and scriptural interpretations of God's laws. I believe that is what he'd do today given the various and conflicting interpretations Christian churches teach and practice concerning his message. The Mormons, for example, teach the word of Joesph Smith, which is a prophet that doesn't exist in any other Christian church. Then you have the Fundamental Mormons, they practice polygamy... and then the Jehovah Witnesses, who believe it's immoral to donate blood or accept blood transfusions. The Catholics, they pray to Mary and Saints, which other churches disagree strongly with, and don't eat meat on Sunday...

    You don't think Jesus would turn some of those beliefs on their head or argue against some of them??? It's still worshiping the same God of course, and that's what really matters... but the Pope isn't God and churches don't replace God either. I personally believe that I should pray and ask God to open my mind and heart to learn his teachings and for direction concerning such conflicting teachings and traditions. Humans are going to make mistakes, and I know God knows that. God didn't create millions of different Christian churches. People did.

  4. #474
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Jesus argued with rabbis and was accused of blasphemy, and was nearly stoned to death. Are you familiar with the story of his persecution and execution? The entire religious community wasn't exactly on his side. He worked on Sunday, healing people, he touched lepers, and did many other things they condemned to boot.
    Who do you think the pharisees were? He was accused because they were trying to trick him etc. They condemned because they did not like the people following him and the law as intended, not what they wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Jesus did not propose war. There were many anti Roman, and pro Israel militias in his day. He didn't join any of them, and from my understanding, he was opposed to them. I'd say that Jesus was peaceful by my worldly definition. He wasn't violent, nor did he promote violence or holy war against Rome. His message did create conflict, but he wasn't teaching conflict and war as a value in those verses.
    That is the whole reason he came. He was not some peace-nick as you would present him as. He also noted there is a time for war.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I know he didn't claim to change God's law. You totally missed my point. He wasn't arguing with rabbis against God's laws. He was arguing with their perception, teachings, and scriptural interpretations of God's laws. I believe that is what he'd do today given the various and conflicting interpretations Christian churches teach and practice concerning his message. The Mormons, for example, teach the word of Joesph Smith, which is a prophet that doesn't exist in any other Christian church. Then you have the Fundamental Mormons, they practice polygamy... and then the Jehovah Witnesses, who believe it's immoral to donate blood or accept blood transfusions. The Catholics, they pray to Mary and Saints, which other churches disagree strongly with, and don't eat meat on Sunday...

    You don't think Jesus would turn some of those beliefs on their head or argue against some of them??? It's still worshiping the same God of course, and that's what really matters... but the Pope isn't God and churches don't replace God either. I personally believe that I should pray and ask God to open my mind and heart to learn his teachings and for direction concerning such conflicting teachings and traditions. Humans are going to make mistakes, and I know God knows that. God didn't create millions of different Christian churches. People did.
    OK I agree here. I did completely miss the point.

    This however does not change the fact that Jesus was portrayed as a non political entity and to try and judge him as liberal or conservative is a fool's errand. He does not fit either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  5. #475
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    I clicked conservative because Jesus asked only that people give freely of the heart rather than demand that government take from some to give to others.

    And I also can't see Jesus supporting such perversions as homosexuality and aborting unborn babies__These liberal policies are contradictory to his teachings.

    Not to mention the fact that liberals are vulgar profane haters while Jesus was kind caring and loving.
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    All religions fall under the definition of "cult" so what? "Cult" is not a negative term if that's what you are shooting for.
    I agree that all religion are cults. In the context of the biblical Jesus living in this modern world, he would be viewed as a wacko. Of course if was able to do the things like what the bible said he did then things might be a bit different. But if Jesus were alive today then he would not have been alive back in whats called biblical times. Which would mean that things would be very different today. IMO we would be much better off without cultists and their kool-aid. Without that mentality we would see the world as it actually is. Which is not cruel or evil but just is reality a mix of everything that is real.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I agree that all religion are cults. In the context of the biblical Jesus living in this modern world, he would be viewed as a wacko.Of course if was able to do the things like what the bible said he did then things might be a bit different.
    He was seen by quite a few as a wacko back then as well even though he was reported to have done those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But if Jesus were alive today then he would not have been alive back in whats called biblical times. Which would mean that things would be very different today.
    Christians believe he is just as alive today. If he was God and could do the things he said, why would he not be alive in biblical times? I mean that is a philosophical leap at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    IMO we would be much better off without cultists and their kool-aid.
    Like the partisan hacks and their kool-aid? Or the humanists and their kool-aid? The racialists and their kool-aid? If one thing is as true today as it was in biblical times man will always find a way to justify anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Without that mentality we would see the world as it actually is. Which is not cruel or evil but just is reality a mix of everything that is real.
    This is silly.... So all the mass murdering and genocide done in the name of national boarders or race is just a grey area???

    Their is good and evil in this world. If God were taken out of the equation, it would make it no less so. Has nothing at all to do with Christians or anyone else seeing the reality of the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #478
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    He was seen by quite a few as a wacko back then as well even though he was reported to have done those things.
    Reported and seeing it actually happen are different concepts that have different effects.



    Christians believe he is just as alive today. If he was God and could do the things he said, why would he not be alive in biblical times? I mean that is a philosophical leap at best.



    Like the partisan hacks and their kool-aid? Or the humanists and their kool-aid? The racialists and their kool-aid? If one thing is as true today as it was in biblical times man will always find a way to justify anything.
    No like Reverend James Warren "Jim" Jones and his followers.


    This is silly.... So all the mass murdering and genocide done in the name of national boarders or race is just a grey area???
    You are right it is silly since I said nothing like that.

    Their is good and evil in this world. If God were taken out of the equation, it would make it no less so. Has nothing at all to do with Christians or anyone else seeing the reality of the situation.
    Good and evil are perceptions that differ between everyone. Take the ten commandments for example most of them have nothing to do with morals. God has never been in the equation, there have only been humans saying that a god exists and they base the claim on faith. And everything is reality based that is how reality works. One in reality can believe in god or whatever but one has to accept that god is not reality based, it is based on faith. Which is the entire purpose of the bible, to convince you that god exists through faith in his existence. No faith no god.

    But back to the subject, Jesus would not be a Liberal. Jesus of the bible was not a politician nor a partisan hack. The character was portrayed as an opponent of the Roman empire who used outlandish claims of being a god to acquire followers. Jesus was a rebel cultist that defied Roman law. When the Romans no longer tolerated Jesus attempt to over throw the government through propaganda they killed him for treason. And Jesus failed miserably at his goal of changing Rome. Rome did use Christianity to control the masses but ultimately that model failed (as it did in Europe later). Rome did not fall for five centuries after Jesus died in the biblical story. In the end Jesus was more like David Koresh than anyone else.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Reported and seeing it actually happen are different concepts that have different effects.
    People in the Bible said they saw it. So that is that I guess?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    No like Reverend James Warren "Jim" Jones and his followers.
    Whats the difference? A cult is a cult according to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You are right it is silly since I said nothing like that.
    That was an example. Nice dodge though.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Good and evil are perceptions that differ between everyone. Take the ten commandments for example most of them have nothing to do with morals.
    What?

    Thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife etc????? Yea no morals there.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    God has never been in the equation, there have only been humans saying that a god exists and they base the claim on faith.
    I assume you have irrefutable proof to back up this claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    And everything is reality based that is how reality works. One in reality can believe in god or whatever but one has to accept that god is not reality based, it is based on faith. Which is the entire purpose of the bible, to convince you that god exists through faith in his existence. No faith no god.
    So in other words... No facts, no evidence just your own opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But back to the subject, Jesus would not be a Liberal. Jesus of the bible was not a politician nor a partisan hack. The character was portrayed as an opponent of the Roman empire who used outlandish claims of being a god to acquire followers. Jesus was a rebel cultist that defied Roman law. When the Romans no longer tolerated Jesus attempt to over throw the government through propaganda they killed him for treason. And Jesus failed miserably at his goal of changing Rome. Rome did use Christianity to control the masses but ultimately that model failed (as it did in Europe later). Rome did not fall for five centuries after Jesus died in the biblical story. In the end Jesus was more like David Koresh than anyone else.
    OK you got way to many facts wrong. Please point out in any historical record or the Bible where Jesus defied Roman law? Oh you can't because he never did. Please point out where Jesus was trying to change Rome? Oh he was not. I am not even going to read the rest as it is pretty much false assumptions based on nothing.

    Your assumptions fly in the face of historical records and the Bible.

    Total fail here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    People in the Bible said they saw it. So that is that I guess?
    Did they really? Why would his followers of that time need faith if he did such fantastic things?



    Whats the difference? A cult is a cult according to you.
    And a horse is a horse of course.

    That was an example. Nice dodge though.
    An example that was a strawman argument.



    What?

    Thou shalt not murder, thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife etc????? Yea no morals there.
    What are the first four commandments about? Are they about morals? Ok 6 morals vs 4 non-morals so I was wrong to say most. But it is interesting that those 4 are first before the actual morals.



    I
    assume you have irrefutable proof to back up this claim?
    Are you claiming that you have proof of gods existence? All I claimed is that the is no evidence and that is why Christians need faith.



    So in other words... No facts, no evidence just your own opinion?
    I have the same facts that you have on the existence of a god.



    OK you got way to many facts wrong. Please point out in any historical record or the Bible where Jesus defied Roman law? Oh you can't because he never did. Please point out where Jesus was trying to change Rome? Oh he was not. I am not even going to read the rest as it is pretty much false assumptions based on nothing.

    Your assumptions fly in the face of historical records and the Bible.
    The biblical Jesus defied Roman law by being thought of as the messiah. While there is scant evidence that Jesus claimed to be the messiah his followers did believe him to be the messiah. The fact that Jesus had followers was in itself against Roman law. But Pilate made a mockery of Jesus the "King of the Jews," the crown of thorns and placing him between two villains on the cross all points to a sedition charge.

    Have you not read the bible? The biblical Jesus was portrayed as the messiah. Jesus said that there is only one true king and that king was god. In doing so his followers were no longer answering to Caesar but to Jesus and his god. Which in Rome was not allowed. The kingdom of god whether claimed to be spiritual or not could not be accepted by Roman law and obviously was not during the era in which the biblical Jesus would have lived.

    Total fail here.
    Lol you claim to not read yet claim a failure haha.

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