View Poll Results: Which of these political leans would Jesus be?

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  • Liberal

    58 47.15%
  • Conservative

    14 11.38%
  • Moderate

    10 8.13%
  • Potato

    41 33.33%
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Thread: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

  1. #421
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal N. Bloeme View Post
    Sure he did. I remember reading something like......"In the beginning, God made them male and female, and for this reason a man shall leave his home or whatever and cling to his wife and the two shall become one flesh, blah, blah".

    I'll look for it.

    Yep, it's right there in Matthew 19. Look it up.
    Once again, that's not what he actually says. This summarized what I was gonna say pretty well so I'll just stick with it:

    Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?

    2. "Jesus has just defined marriage as a male man to a female woman, and that's how the men to whom He was speaking understood it."

    Your conclusion is not at all what Jesus actually said. The Jewish men to whom Jesus spoke did not define marriage as one man with one woman for life. When Jesus cites Genesis 2:24, by no means did Jesus or Jewish men understand Genesis 2:24 as prohibiting polygamy.

    We know Complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not God's ironclad rule for all marriages because scripture makes exceptions for other situations like (1) polygamy and (2) divorce because of fornication. The fact that there are clearly stated Biblical exceptions to Complementarity proves your absolutist view is wrong.

    It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated.

    "To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

    I believe scripture is clear that the Jewish men He addressed did not understand Him to be prohibiting polygamy. There is no way Jesus intended His words to convey the meaning you give them - that the only marriage acceptable to God is one man with one woman. Here's how we know that.
    And it goes on to explain rather clearly why that's a false conclusion.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #422
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Once again, that's not what he actually says. This summarized what I was gonna say pretty well so I'll just stick with it:

    Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?



    And it goes on to explain rather clearly why that's a false conclusion.
    Your site is a gay site and twists scripture. We are warned about people who do that to justify their lifestyle. I can twist scripture also. Judas went and hanged himself........Go and do thou likewise. I used scripture. Are you going to do it?

    We do know one man for one woman because Jesus said it. He didn't say "the person you love". He didn't say "consenting adult". He said a man and a woman.

    I understand your impulse to use gay sites who claim to be Christian, but they are twisting the Word of God to satisfy their agenda.
    Last edited by Neal N. Bloeme; 03-14-12 at 07:36 PM.

  3. #423
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal N. Bloeme View Post
    Nope. They asked him why did Moses give them permission to divorce. That is what was said immediately after that.

    Matthew 19 NIV - Divorce - When Jesus had finished - Bible Gateway
    Yep, keep reading. Jesus goes on to say:

    *
    11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
    The one man and one woman business isn't given to everyone. If it were, how would that command pertain to hermaphrodites? Are they not allowed to get married? Allowed to marry both at the same time? Jesus was not defining marriage, He was addressing the question of divorce between heterosexual couples.

  4. #424
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal N. Bloeme View Post
    I understand your impulse to use gay sites who claim to be Christian, but they are twisting the Word of God to satisfy their agenda.
    Which is the same thing that people like the Westboro Baptist church do...

  5. #425
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    The idea that marriage is between one woman and one man is demonstrably unsupported by scripture:

    "I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more." -2 Samuel 12:8

    Not only did king David have many wives, but his marriage to those wives is aknowledged as legitimate by the Word of God, and in fact God takes credit for delivering those multiple wives into David's arms. It also explicitely states that David did not sin by taking many wives, and that his only sins were adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah the Hittite.

  6. #426
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    You didn't look very hard then. Verse 33, fifth word.
    Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you? how in the world do you place that in context and claim that Jesus is advocating government redistribution of wealth?

    Much like the protaganist in 1984 was?
    no. for Real. In a realer sense than frankly is within our imagination.

    A.k.a. The Godhead, a.k.a. The corporate personhood of the State.
    no. the Trinity. No Law and No Government.

    When you take your identity from the Kingdom of God, that is nationalism. In what way is it not?
    what is the ethnicity of the Kingdom of God? what are it's geographic boundaries?

    You claim that there is abundance in heaven. Whatever there is in abundance must be produced somehow.
    given that production is a temporal process, no, not really.

    Nor do you. I suppose we shall just have to continue debating in ignorance.
    actually I know a bit about Christianity, and a bit about Fascism. You seem to have decided to make a provocative statement and then suddenly found yourself defending a patently foolish position.

  7. #427
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you? how in the world do you place that in context and claim that Jesus is advocating government redistribution of wealth?
    How do you not? Redistribution of wealth in the Kingdom of God is exactly what is being promised. That the humble will be exalted etc...


    no. for Real. In a realer sense than frankly is within our imagination.
    My point is that clockwork orange style reformation of character is not antithetical to the notion of fascism.

    no. the Trinity. No Law and No Government.
    The trinity is the government in the kingdom of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be the Kingdom of God, it would be the anarchy of reborn people.

    what is the ethnicity of the Kingdom of God? what are it's geographic boundaries?
    . Neither of those are prerequisite to nationalism.

    given that production is a temporal process, no, not really.
    Yes really. Divine fiat is still production. Do you you propose that abundance will exist with no authorship at all? That creations in heaven will have no Creator?

    actually I know a bit about Christianity, and a bit about Fascism. You seem to have decided to make a provocative statement and then suddenly found yourself defending a patently foolish position.
    I am sure your self professed authority on the subject is very impressive to alot of people. I have no need to assert any credentials in the matter. My arguments will stand on their own merits.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Yep, keep reading. Jesus goes on to say:

    *

    The one man and one woman business isn't given to everyone. If it were, how would that command pertain to hermaphrodites? Are they not allowed to get married? Allowed to marry both at the same time? Jesus was not defining marriage, He was addressing the question of divorce between heterosexual couples.
    That verse is not speaking of homosexuls. You're twisting scripture to mean something it doesn't say.

    Yes, the question he was asked was about divorce. You have to be married to get divorced. Logic and common sense. Very simple.
    Last edited by Neal N. Bloeme; 03-15-12 at 10:32 AM.

  9. #429
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal N. Bloeme View Post
    That verse is not speaking of homosexuls. You're twisting scripture to mean something it doesn't say.

    Yes, the question he was asked was about divorce. You have to be married to get divorced. Logic and common sense. Very simple.
    So gay couples that are married shouldn't get divorced.

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    So gay couples that are married shouldn't get divorced.
    There is no such thing as "gay marriage". That's a media term. Jesus is speaking of marriage, period.

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