View Poll Results: Which of these political leans would Jesus be?

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  • Liberal

    58 47.15%
  • Conservative

    14 11.38%
  • Moderate

    10 8.13%
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    41 33.33%
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Thread: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

  1. #151
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. 22 liberals think Jesus would have been a liberal. Learn to use logic instead of straw man arguments.
    Liberals are for? Try to use logic to follow along at least.

    We have different definitions of cuteness. I find Libertarians politically irrelevant but realistically cute.
    Getting the message of a strong government out of just about anything he said is cute. Trying to claim that a lean being accepted or not accepted in the modern day political environment had anything to do with Jesus and how he thought is just idiotic. Jesus was just interested in teaching faith and the message of god and that is it.

    Sure he was. He also told his followers to sell their possessions, feed the poor and remove themselves from pursuit of material wealth.
    So what? How does that show he is a liberal?

  2. #152
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    For me, it was the opposite. I read Marx in my teens and later found the real world is different.

    But of course you're right, it's easy to talk about "responsibility" when you're not in need. And when you are denied all other options besides pestilence and cholera, it's more than understandable that you will attempt to change the rules of the game. Freedom can't fill your belly.
    It's not even that. It's that Libertarians are simply unable to understand that human beings do not live in singular little vacuums. Their policies are destructive because they are unable to see that they do have a responsibility to the community they live in whether they like it or not. In a playground they are like those kids who go play on the publicly built jungle gym but will not let the other kids go down the slide and use it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #153
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Liberals are for? Try to use logic to follow along at least.
    Not necessarily a strong central government.

    Getting the message of a strong government out of just about anything he said is cute. Trying to claim that a lean being accepted or not accepted in the modern day political environment had anything to do with Jesus and how he thought is just idiotic. Jesus was just interested in teaching faith and the message of god and that is it.
    Still fighting that straw man hard are you?

    So what? How does that show he is a liberal?
    It shows he was far more aware of the social contracts binding a community than you are.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #154
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    We don't know what Jesus would have said about this modern problem, but if you believe in further revelations, you can read what the Baha'i teachings say about it here:

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 273-277

    You have questioned me about strikes. This question is and will be for a long time the subject of great difficulties. Strikes are due to two causes. One is the extreme greed and rapacity of the manufacturers and industrialists; the other, the excesses, the avidity and intransigence of the workmen and artisans. It is, therefore, necessary to remedy these two causes.

    But the principal cause of these difficulties lies in the laws of the present civilization; for they lead to a small number of individuals accumulating incomparable fortunes, beyond their needs, while the greater number remain destitute, stripped and in the greatest misery. This is contrary to justice, to humanity, to equity; it is the height of iniquity, the opposite to what causes divine satisfaction.

    This contrast is peculiar to the world of man: with other creatures—that is to say, with nearly all animals—there is a kind of justice and equality. Thus equality exists in a shepherd’s flock and in a herd of deer in the country. Likewise, among the birds of the prairie, of the plain, of the hills or of the orchard, and among every kind of animal some kind of equality prevails. With them such a difference in the means of existence is not to be found; so they live in the most complete peace and joy.

    It is quite otherwise with the human species, which persists in the greatest error, and in absolute iniquity. Consider an individual who has amassed treasures by colonizing a country for his profit: he has obtained an incomparable fortune and has secured profits and incomes which 274 flow like a river, while a hundred thousand unfortunate people, weak and powerless, are in need of a mouthful of bread. There is neither equality nor benevolence.

    So you see that general peace and joy are destroyed, and the welfare of humanity is negated to such an extent as to make fruitless the lives of many. For fortune, honors, commerce, industry are in the hands of some industrialists, while other people are submitted to quite a series of difficulties and to limitless troubles: they have neither advantages, nor profits, nor comforts, nor peace.

    Then rules and laws should be established to regulate the excessive fortunes of certain private individuals and meet the needs of millions of the poor masses; thus a certain moderation would be obtained. However, absolute equality is just as impossible, for absolute equality in fortunes, honors, commerce, agriculture, industry would end in disorderliness, in chaos, in disorganization of the means of existence, and in universal disappointment: the order of the community would be quite destroyed. Thus difficulties will also arise when unjustified equality is imposed.

    It is, therefore, preferable for moderation to be established by means of laws and regulations to hinder the constitution of the excessive fortunes of certain individuals, and to protect the essential needs of the masses. For instance, the manufacturers and the industrialists heap up a treasure each day, and the poor artisans do not gain their daily sustenance: that is the height of iniquity, and no just man can accept it.

    Therefore, laws and regulations should be established which would permit the workmen to receive from the factory owner their wages and a share in the fourth or the fifth part of the profits, according to the capacity of the factory; or in some other way the body of workmen and the manufacturers should share equitably the profits and advantages.

    Indeed, the capital and management come from the owner of the factory, and the work and labor, from the body of the workmen. Either the 275 workmen should receive wages which assure them an adequate support and, when they cease work, becoming feeble or helpless, they should have sufficient benefits from the income of the industry; or the wages should be high enough to satisfy the workmen with the amount they receive so that they may themselves be able to put a little aside for days of want and helplessness. (...)
    That's actually part of the Holy Scripture of the Baha'i religion.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  5. #155
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Not necessarily a strong central government.
    Like in the end there is a difference.

    Still fighting that straw man hard are you?
    No, just people that can't see what is obviously in front of them.

    It shows he was far more aware of the social contracts binding a community than you are.
    You are not even aware of how much I give to the poor a year so you can either ask or stop acting like I give nothing.

    You realize that all of what you just said is voluntary, yes? Where did he say government should do any of that or it should be given to the government as a middle man?
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-29-12 at 11:20 PM.

  6. #156
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's not even that. It's that Libertarians are simply unable to understand that human beings do not live in singular little vacuums. Their policies are destructive because they are unable to see that they do have a responsibility to the community they live in whether they like it or not. In a playground they are like those kids who go play on the publicly built jungle gym but will not let the other kids go down the slide and use it.
    I'd say the more childish libertarians, anyway. there are certainly some more mature libertarians who do realize other people exist.


    As far as I'm concerned, much of the art of politics involves the reconciliation between two distinct needs -- that of the individual's self expression and that of the community. Since we cannot survive as a species unless we cooperate with each other, then obviously the more extreme libertarian views are counterproductive as they do not take into consideration the needs of the community with sufficient commitment. Still, since we are individuals with individual needs, our ability to seek out our own path should be considered.

    It's like the old adage that my right to swing my fist extends only so far as your nose in that the less mature libertarians really only understand the first part of the equation and not the second.
    Last edited by Gardener; 02-29-12 at 11:23 PM.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  7. #157
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's not even that. It's that Libertarians are simply unable to understand that human beings do not live in singular little vacuums.
    We don't believe that.

    Their policies are destructive because they are unable to see that they do have a responsibility to the community they live in whether they like it or not.
    We understand this just fine.

  8. #158
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Like in the end there is a difference.
    Oh but there is.

    No, just people that can't see what is obviously in front of them.
    Well if you're debating straw man argument, it doesn't really matter what I see because you're only seeing what you want.

    You are not even aware of how much I give to the poor a year so you can either ask or stop acting like I give nothing.
    I don't care?

    You realize that all of what you just said is voluntary, yes? Where did he say government should do any of that or it should be given to the government as a middle man?
    Social contracts aren't voluntary. You can either be part of them or try your luck in a state of nature. Good luck!
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #159
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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    We don't believe that.



    We understand this just fine.
    Am I the only one here enjoying the irony of the libertarian referring to himself as part of a hive mind?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Would Jesus be a Liberal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh but there is.
    At that point there really isn't. Great argument, btw.

    Well if you're debating straw man argument, it doesn't really matter what I see because you're only seeing what you want.
    My strawman is where exactly?

    I don't care?
    Try to keep your assumptions to a minimum then.

    Social contracts aren't voluntary. You can either be part of them or try your luck in a state of nature. Good luck!
    That has to do with what Jesus said how?
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-29-12 at 11:30 PM.

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