View Poll Results: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

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  • Definitely

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    6 18.18%
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    5 15.15%
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    5 15.15%
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Thread: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

  1. #71
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You would do well to educate yourself with the positions, policies, and fears of the founders -- for one thing they feared was a standing army (which I noted, which you disputed). I could give you lots of quotes, as well as a Constitutional cite (Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 12), but I'd imagine everyone else knows that picture so I will not waste their time.

    As to "abolish the military entirely", well, you'll have to take that up with your strawman.
    MY strawman?

    Hey, genius -- you're the one who said that as a libertarian, his choice must be Candidate A. Candidate A wanted to abolish the military entirely; Candidate B wanted to cut it down to minimum but not abolish it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    [...] I consider myself to be a pragmatic libertarian. I don't expect mainstream candidates to line up perfectly with my views, even though I'm moderate by many libertarian standards. But at a certain point ideals have to matter. Just being less bad than the other guys becomes meaningless after a certain point. Allow me to paint an extreme example. Candidate A wants to abolish the military entirely. Candidate B just wants to disband the navy and airforce. Measuring them in a vaccuum against each other, Candidate B is more reasonable. But both are still insanely reckless. [...]
    Candidate A is your man. Like the founders, Libertarians want no standing army. You're no Libertarian.
    I can't help it if you pooched your own post, but once again, you're at your most arrogant just as you're about to get owned.

    As always -- figure out what's going on in your OWN head before you decide to lecture someone else about theirs.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 02-26-12 at 02:15 AM.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    The Republican Party controlled all three branches from 2001 to 2006, and the federal government only grew under their watch.
    That is not exactly true. At the time President Bush took office, the Senate was split 50-50. Then Sen. Jim Jeffords switched from a Republican to an Independent in June 2001 and sided with the Democrats, which controlled the Senate until November 2002.

  3. #73
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown, replying to Karl View Post
    Define draconian. [...]
    Buy a dictionary.

    As your argument has devolved into semantics, we're done. Have a nice day

  4. #74
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    MY strawman? Hey, genius -- you're the one who said that as a libertarian, his choice must be Candidate A. Candidate A wanted to abolish the military entirely; Candidate B wanted to cut it down to minimum but not abolish it. [...]
    Tip: You can't win a point by making stuff up. Candidate B wanted to abolish the navy and the airforce, period. The founders did not fear the navy (it was a blanket constitutional authorization, and could hardly be used to invade and control the citizenry), and of course there was no air force. What the founders feared, which you dispute but fail to argue, is a standing army. Since Candidate A wanted to abolish the military entirely, and Candidate B is apparently fine with the army as it is (huge), then Candidate A is clearly the libertarian choice.

    Your strawman was assigning Candidate A's position to me, when I merely chose him as the best choice of the two (logically, as we can see above). My position is that the founders wanted no standing army, or at the very least feared it. You tried to contest that, and I see now that you have wisely abandon that course of action. Still, your attempt to slice and dice my post, as well as the posts of others (your description of Candidate B), and construct a strawman has led, once again, predictably, to failure.

    L.O.L.

  5. #75
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Tip: You can't win a point by making stuff up. Candidate B wanted to abolish the navy and the airforce, period. The founders did not fear the navy (it was a blanket constitutional authorization, and could hardly be used to invade and control the citizenry), and of course there was no air force. What the founders feared, which you dispute but fail to argue, is a standing army. Since Candidate A wanted to abolish the military entirely, and Candidate B is apparently fine with the army as it is (huge), then Candidate A is clearly the libertarian choice.

    Your strawman was assigning Candidate A's position to me, when I merely chose him as the best choice of the two (logically, as we can see above). My position is that the founders wanted no standing army, or at the very least feared it. You tried to contest that, and I see now that you have wisely abandon that course of action. Still, your attempt to slice and dice my post, as well as the posts of others (your description of Candidate B), and construct a strawman has led, once again, predictably, to failure.

    L.O.L.
    Uh, no.

    You told PC that as a libertarian, HIS choice should be Candidate A. That is right in my post; YOU quoted it; if you think I was assigning it to YOU, you either can't read or you're lying yet again.

    You said it's the "Libertarian" choice. You're wrong. THAT'S what I said. And also as I said, the Founders NEVER abolished the Army in entirety, and NO libertarian tenet requires it. It would help if you actually understood that.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #76
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Another reason to oppose Rick Santorum for president; if contraception were outlawed for strawwomen, we'd be awash in even more strawmen that we currently have to deal with

  7. #77
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Buy a dictionary.

    As your argument has devolved into semantics, we're done. Have a nice day
    Oh no. I was so enjoying arguing about what a true libertarian is for the 100th time. It was such a unique and enlightening exchange. Whatever will I do now that you have ended it?
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  8. #78
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    That would be the same with the OWS, which was a reflection of American Leftism. Yet, we still can make the argument that the OWS is surging or falling into irrelevance. The Tea Party Movement, so far as its message, platform, and organizations are concerned, those are tangible and capable of being popular or being irrelevant.
    Right. I always compare OWS and the Tea Party, in terms of their populism, their extremist messages, their idiocy, and their quick rise and fall in relevance
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
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  9. #79
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    The Republican Party controlled all three branches from 2001 to 2006, and the federal government only grew under their watch.

    Furthermore, a big chunk of the public outrage over Guantanamo, the USA PATRIOT Act, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a whole host of other things evaporated as soon as Bush left office and Obama came in (IMO, anyway, we can debate over this too).

    With these points in mind, do you think that the Tea Party will remain politically relevant if the Republicans win in 2012? Or will fiscal conservatism be relegated to the back of the bus once the GOP is in power?

    To anyone paying attention, Tea Party relevance is mostly gone already.

  10. #80
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    Re: Will the Tea Party movement remain relevant if the GOP wins the White House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justice For All View Post
    They weren't relevant to begin with, they are just a bunch of neo cons hiding behind a different label and have consistantly done nothing for the country. In my opinion the Tea Party was just a distraction to the public to act like it was some new revolutionary party when in fact they are just republicans with the same tax cutting and war mongering mind set. Boner will hopefully be crying his way off that chair real soon.
    Neoconservatives in the Republican party were generally on the outside of the movement, looking in, supporting the necessity of their movement, but not on the whole "being" the Tea Party. Many neoconservatives can appeal to populism, due to the necessity (either in terms of political expediency or in terms of being a corrective to the errors of the established political class), but on the whole, populism was never really the impulse of the neoconservative persuasion because it was much more academic, politically established, and intellectual (as far as a class of people are concerned).
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 02-26-12 at 09:08 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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