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Thread: Is Obama THAT bad?

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Is Obama THAT bad? No. He's actually been a good president. Unfortunately he inheritted a horrific economy and has had to deal with the most obstructive minority in modern memory.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Bush showed little respect for anyone who opposed him. "My way or the highway" was his motto
    So when BHO said 'you guys gotta sit in the back' was different?

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    • Obama fuels the fires of racism and class warfare instead of bringing an end to these social conflicts;
    And again the race card, and it's all obama's fault you have to play it...
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Anti-Christ or disaster probably aren't terms I would use to describe Obama. He's POTUS in an era of extreme hyper partiasanship which seems to have kicked into high gear in the last 20 years. And its not just media, or internet posters. It's infected our politicians as well.

    Here's the deal folks. People are going to bitch and whine about anything our leaders do or don't do these days, and the claim that we aren't being "represented" by our politicians will always be there. Considering the general public's individual debt issues, drug abuse, infidelity, selectivity of which laws we think apply to us, and pursuit of self interests; I think we are perfectly represented.
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    For me, there are two aspects to it, which are connected. The first is more objective, it's policy. The other is more subjective, it's tone and style.

    Maybe it's due to cultural differences, but Bush came across as extremely arrogant. His martialic speeches, his "cowboy rhetorics". On the policy side, I felt he had a sledgehammer approach to diplomacy. He treated even America's closest allies like vassals. Think of the famous "who is not with us, is against us" quote. In my ears, and that of many Germans, it sounds like "shut up and do what I say". Or when he kept referring to fighting a "crusade". First of all, since when were crusades a good thing? And second, have you any idea how that sounds in the ears of Muslims? Bush more or less confirmed all the ugly prejudices about America that exist here: Insensitive, self-centered, arrogant and a bit primitive.

    The last straw was how Germans and the German government were treated by Bush, just because we opposed the Iraq war. It's not that opposing the war is an illegitimate position to take, many Americans did that too. But Bush fueled many ugly anti-European sentiments among Americans, think of the "Old Europe" label or the constant accusation of "anti-Americanism" -- as if hating Bush's policies equals hating America. Of course, former German Chancellor Schröder played his part too, he was hardly more diplomatic. But I think that was justified, he just showed Bush the mirror and replied in the same language Bush spoke.

    Now Obama was a radical change in tone. Even before he was elected, he went to Berlin and held a moving speech that showed he understands Germans and Europeans and knows how they tick. (For Bush fans, even showing the slightest respect and interest in Europe is probably "kowtowing" already, a weakness, despite Germany being a close ally. Indeed Obama was attacked for it.) Obama did continue many of Bush's policies, but unlike Bush, he always coordinated his efforts with the European allies. He did not give up the UN and did not try to actively obstruct it as Bush did, but used it when it was helpful (despite all its flaws, the UN is important and stands for a different, more cooperative approach to international politics). For example, the mission in Libya found broad agreement in the UN.

    Now Obama does and did many things I do not agree with. For example, he has even expanded many anti-terror laws which arguably violate civil rights. Obama is a politician I disagree with, but whom I respect. Bush, on the other side, does not live in the same world I live in. Probably not even on the same planet.

    Bush's style was entirely America-centered, addressing those ignorant Americans who think Americans are better than non-Americans, who don't find Europe on a map. Who cares what the rest of the world thinks? We do what we want, and the pussies who disagree can go **** themselves. Obama acknowledges that there are more countries on this planet than just America.
    Thanks for your input. I do agree that much of your post centered on style. I also agree that Bush's diplomatic skills was seriously lacking. Believe me, he pissed off a lot of American's too with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

    But I should clarify my "kowtowing" comment. To me bowing/kowtowing is a sign of subservience. And no President of the US should ever be subservient to another country. And Obama did just that, bowed to a foriegn official (more than one actually). This is not to say that I don't think that other countries should be subservient to the President though, nor act like it. I believe that the ones that deserve it should be treated equally. The ones should not be imo are those countries that do not value freedom. Like Iran.

    There are plenty of ways to treat other countries with respect without bowing to them.
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And again the race card, and it's all obama's fault you have to play it...
    Still playing the race card, I see.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Thanks for your input. I do agree that much of your post centered on style. I also agree that Bush's diplomatic skills was seriously lacking. Believe me, he pissed off a lot of American's too with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

    But I should clarify my "kowtowing" comment. To me bowing/kowtowing is a sign of subservience. And no President of the US should ever be subservient to another country. And Obama did just that, bowed to a foriegn official (more than one actually). This is not to say that I don't think that other countries should be subservient to the President though, nor act like it. I believe that the ones that deserve it should be treated equally. The ones should not be imo are those countries that do not value freedom. Like Iran.

    There are plenty of ways to treat other countries with respect without bowing to them.
    I don't know which exact incident you are referring to. But as far as I know, bowing is a common gesture of respect in many cultures, just like the handshake is for us. I believe in Japan, you usually bow down when you meet someone. So if you're talking about the mere gesture of bowing, I don't see anything wrong with it, on the contrary.

    If, for example, Obama bowed down when meeting a Japanese official, that's just a nice gesture that means: "See, I know your customs." Denying it is a bit petty, much like a Japanese denying a handshake when meeting a Westener, just because "physically touching someone means losing the face" or something like that.

    But if Obama sold out American interests to some foreign leader who doesn't deserve it, that would be something different, IMO. No matter if he physically bowed or not.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Still playing the race card, I see.
    The poster was merely reacting to YOUR OWN post in which you brought race into this

    Obama fuels the fires of racism and class warfare instead of bringing an end to these social conflicts;
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Still playing the race card, I see.
    PeeWee Herman is probably not the best one to emulate in debate. You brought race into it, I did not.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The poster was merely reacting to YOUR OWN post in which you brought race into this
    Just as I was merely reacting to Obama's own policies which brought race into his administration.

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