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Thread: Is Obama THAT bad?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    The conservative base portrays Obama as an "Anti-Christ" figure practically. Why is this? I personally don't find Obama to be half as bad as he is portrayed to be.
    First of all, I wonder what basis you have for saying that "the conservative base portrays Obama as an "Anti-Christ" figure practically". Do you have any links? Something that gives you this impression? Perhaps quotes from conservative politicians?

    I think the conservative base thinks he's a bad President, an incompetent leader, and a liberal. Some people think he's a liar. I suspect most people think he's broken promises he made to get himself elected.

    Myself...I think he is a liberal, he's a liar, he'll do and say anything to get elected and that he's bad for the country on the domestic front and I think he's got no clue in regard to foreign relations.


    Other than that...he's not so bad.
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    It's because he is black.
    All too likely, this is true.
    People simply do not change that quickly.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    The only way to fix health care is to make the free riders pay either through taxes or mandated insurance. Pro choice is places liberty above life. SSM is equal protection under the law. So some will end in divorce. Straight marriage ends in divorce too.
    There are more problems than free riders. Costs are running out of control, because there are no mechanisms to control costs. When the US went away from catastrophic health care insurance, mandated what insurance companies have to do, costs went out of control.

    The solution is to get government to provide basic health care, and then encourage rich people to use private health care who will be unregulated.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    The only way to fix health care is to make the free riders pay either through taxes or mandated insurance.
    Folks just have to pay for their own policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    Pro choice places liberty above life.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    SSM is equal protection under the law. So some will end in divorce. Straight marriage ends in divorce too.
    That's precicly the problem being ignored.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    For me, there are two aspects to it, which are connected. The first is more objective, it's policy. The other is more objective, it's tone and style.

    Maybe it's due to cultural differences, but Bush came across as extremely arrogant. His martialic speeches, his "cowboy rhetorics". On the policy side, I felt he had a sledgehammer approach to diplomacy. He treated even America's closest allies like vassals. Think of the famous "who is not with us, is against us" quote. In my ears, and that of many Germans, it sounds like "shut up and do what I say". Or when he kept referring to fighting a "crusade". First of all, since when were crusades a good thing? And second, have you any idea how that sounds in the ears of Muslims? Bush more or less confirmed all the ugly prejudices about America that exist here: Insensitive, self-centered, arrogant and a bit primitive.

    The last straw was how Germans and the German government were treated by Bush, just because we opposed the Iraq war. It's not that opposing the war is an illegitimate position to take, many Americans did that too. But Bush fueled many ugly anti-European sentiments among Americans, think of the "Old Europe" label or the constant accusation of "anti-Americanism" -- as if hating Bush's policies equals hating America. Of course, former German Chancellor Schröder played his part too, he was hardly more diplomatic. But I think that was justified, he just showed Bush the mirror and replied in the same language Bush spoke.

    Now Obama was a radical change in tone. Even before he was elected, he went to Berlin and held a moving speech that showed he understands Germans and Europeans and knows how they tick. (For Bush fans, even showing the slightest respect and interest in Europe is probably "kowtowing" already, a weakness, despite Germany being a close ally. Indeed Obama was attacked for it.) Obama did continue many of Bush's policies, but unlike Bush, he always coordinated his efforts with the European allies. He did not give up the UN and did not try to actively obstruct it as Bush did, but used it when it was helpful (despite all its flaws, the UN is important and stands for a different, more cooperative approach to international politics). For example, the mission in Libya found broad agreement in the UN.

    Now Obama does and did many things I do not agree with. For example, he has even expanded many anti-terror laws which arguably violate civil rights. Obama is a politician I disagree with, but whom I respect. Bush, on the other side, does not live in the same world I live in. Probably not even on the same planet.

    Bush's style was entirely America-centered, addressing those ignorant Americans who think Americans are better than non-Americans, who don't find Europe on a map. Who cares what the rest of the world thinks? We do what we want, and the pussies who disagree can go **** themselves. Obama acknowledges that there are more countries on this planet than just America.
    What I am getting from this is your opinions on Bush vs Obama is more style than substance. I can actually see your point though, Bush had a way of speaking that was short and to the point, his diplomatic skills were somewhat lacking I admit. Obama on the other hand is a slick talker and everyone he speaks too comes away thinking they heard what they wanted to hear. Alot of us in America liked Bushes "cowboy rhetoric" as you put it, we call it straight talk. We also liked the way Bush acted like president of the USA not the world and put our interest above all other countries, in our opinion that was his primary responsibility but I can honestly see how you would prefer Obams approach. He seems to think America is more of a problem than a solution and it sometimes seems he is just as concerned with seeing Brazil do well as seeing his own country prosper. Old school Americans such as myself can sometimes feel "were the best, screw the rest" and I can see why you would find that annoying. I just call it patriotism. Again, I appreciate hearing your point of view though, thanks for responding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Folks just have to pay for their own policies.



    Exactly.



    That's precicly the problem being ignored.
    Yes people could just pay for own policies but many don't then they get sick or hurt go to the ER and don't pay. That raises costs in those that pay. A mandate for insurance, like in auto insurance, works.

    Liberty above life us an American virtue. Live free or die and give me liberty or give me death are American phrases. That some percent if marriage will end in divorce is no reason to ban marriage.
    Last edited by kenvin; 02-19-12 at 11:48 AM.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    Yes people could just pay for own policies but many don't then they get sick or hurt go to the ER and don't pay. That raises costs in those that pay. A mandate for insurance, like in auto insurance, works.
    Absolutly.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    Liberty above life us an American virtue. Live free or die and give me liberty or give me death are American phrases. That some percent if marriage will end in divorce is no reason to ban marriage.
    Killing people who are a mere inconvenience is not an American virtue. Liberty above life regards self-sacrifice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Absolutly.



    Killing people who are a mere inconvenience is not an American virtue. Liberty above life regards self-sacrifice.
    Liberty above life is in one respect about self sacrifice. It is also about simply liberty. Not having it is more than a mere inconvenience.

  9. #39
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    What I am getting from this is your opinions on Bush vs Obama is more style than substance. I can actually see your point though, Bush had a way of speaking that was short and to the point, his diplomatic skills were somewhat lacking I admit. Obama on the other hand is a slick talker and everyone he speaks too comes away thinking they heard what they wanted to hear. Alot of us in America liked Bushes "cowboy rhetoric" as you put it, we call it straight talk. We also liked the way Bush acted like president of the USA not the world and put our interest above all other countries, in our opinion that was his primary responsibility but I can honestly see how you would prefer Obams approach. He seems to think America is more of a problem than a solution and it sometimes seems he is just as concerned with seeing Brazil do well as seeing his own country prosper. Old school Americans such as myself can sometimes feel "were the best, screw the rest" and I can see why you would find that annoying. I just call it patriotism. Again, I appreciate hearing your point of view though, thanks for responding.
    I might be the smartest guy in class or the best athlete on the team but that doesn't mean I don't respect the other class geeks or athletes on the field. Bush showed little respect for anyone who opposed him. "My way or the highway" was his motto and it didn't apply just to other countries - many of his blind followers brought that attitude right into the workplace and the bars.

    BTW - I'm old school, too, and I didn't buy that line in the 60's and 70's, either. I'm unpatriotic because I oppose something our leaders are doing??? Funny, I always thought the opposite - that I could speak my mind without fear of recrimination - was what made America great.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-19-12 at 12:06 PM.
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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    First of all, I wonder what basis you have for saying that "the conservative base portrays Obama as an "Anti-Christ" figure practically". Do you have any links? Something that gives you this impression? Perhaps quotes from conservative politicians?


    Media Matters Revisits Right-Wing Media Prophesies That Obama Is The Antichrist | Media Matters for America

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