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Thread: Is Obama THAT bad?

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    So the best thing you can say about obama is he's "not that bad", LMAO.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    The conservative base portrays Obama as an "Anti-Christ" figure practically. Why is this? I personally don't find Obama to be half as bad as he is portrayed to be.
    Obama is pretty bad, but certainly not the worst among Democrats or Republicans. What I really dislike about Obama, is
    1. He doesn't care about the deficits. That was obvious when he had a supermajority and could have pushed for reforms for spending cuts or revenue increases
    2. Obama is quite intolerant. He doesn't respect other views than his own. I noticed that from watching him and Bill Clinton on the daily show, and his actions.
    3. Obama promotes class warfare instead of attempting to solve the problems of the US

    But compare him to the cronies in Chicago and California who think that any public sector wage rise is acceptable, because they have the right to fight for it, Obama is pretty good. Also, uneducated people who think they are educated annoy me a lot. Don't talk about a topic if you don't know basic facts.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Bold: Talking point. We still had plenty of respect abroad. The people that didn't respect us then are the same ones that don't respect us now. And kowtowing to other countries is disrespectful to Americans.
    I don't want to comment on Obama in general, but let me say as a person abroad, Obama did restore my respect for America after the Bush years. And many people I know over here feel the same.

    That doesn't mean I think everything Obama did and does is good. Actually, I think of him as a lesser evil, not more. And I am deeply disturbed that so many Americans feel diplomatic behavior, which should be a no-brainer, equals "kowtowing" and anything short of breaking chairs over the heads of foreign people is "appeasement". I don't think Obama is "kowtowing", he's just doing what's a matter of course for every leader except certain American politicians.

    But you're right that Obama didn't reach the extreme far-left fringe in Europe who hates America anyway. They did so before and continue to do so. But don't think the criticism of Bush was limited to these usual suspects.
    Last edited by German guy; 02-19-12 at 08:33 AM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    The conservative base portrays Obama as an "Anti-Christ" figure practically. Why is this? I personally don't find Obama to be half as bad as he is portrayed to be.
    Name any politician, and you can find someone who portrays them as the anti-Christ. Obviously some people feel that way about Obama, but to say that the conservative base portrays him that way is absurd. The conservative base isn't half as bad as you portray them to be.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I don't want to comment on Obama in general, but let me say as a person abroad, Obama did restore my respect for America after the Bush years. And many people I know over here feel the same.

    That doesn't mean I think everything Obama did and does is good. Actually, I think of him as a lesser evil, not more. And I am deeply disturbed that so many Americans feel diplomatic behavior, which should be a no-brainer, equals "kowtowing" and anything short of breaking chairs over the heads of foreign people is "appeasement". I don't think Obama is "kowtowing", he's just doing what's a matter of course for every leader except certain American politicians.

    But you're right that Obama didn't reach the extreme far-left fringe in Europe who hates America anyway. They did so before and continue to do so. But don't think the criticism of Bush was limited to these usual suspects.
    Very interesting post, I am alway curious about what the world thinks of us and why. Could you elaborate on exactly what obama did to restore your faith in America and exactly what Bush did to lose it in the first place and it would be informative to know what you thought of America when Clinton was pres, thanks.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    no, and he's not extreme. it's hyperpartisanism. Bush was not Adolph Hitler, and Obama is not chairman Mao. those who argue based on emotion rather than logic need fiery slogans and rhetoric, however.

    Obama's reversal on the patriot act was something i found disappointing. starting the health care debate with a public option as the initial proposal rather than UHC also ensured failure of meaningful reform, but there was little that he could do about that one.

    there is a lot of time for the global situation to change between now and the election, and his response could make it pretty hard for me to vote for him. however, as it stands now, he will be the first president that i ever have voted for twice. i thoroughly consider every candidate running in each election, and i vote for the one who is closest to my own views. i don't find any of the Republican candidates appealing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    "Bush did it first" and "Obama is black, therefore you're a racist" are apparently the only talking points Obama needs to repel attacks from the right. Pathetic.
    No that he is black is why some on the right hate him irrationally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes.

    • Obama has the completely wrong way to go about improving healthcare;
    • Obama fuels the fires of racism and class warfare instead of bringing an end to these social conflicts;
    • Obama has embarrassed the country abroad with his apology ture and accepting the Nobel Peace Prize knowing he didn't earn it;
    • Obama does not support private ownership of arms;
    • Obama holds that born children are a punishment, not people.
    • Obama is pro-choice.
    • It's not that Obama is pro-ssm, it's that he doesn't care that half of those SSMs will end in divorce. He's just using people.
    The only way to fix health care is to make the free riders pay either through taxes or mandated insurance. Pro choice is places liberty above life. SSM is equal protection under the law. So some will end in divorce. Straight marriage ends in divorce too.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    The conservative base portrays Obama as an "Anti-Christ" figure practically. Why is this? I personally don't find Obama to be half as bad as he is portrayed to be.
    The conservative base is base(sewer). I hope that it is not more than 10% of our people and that this percentage is decreasing.

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    Re: Is Obama THAT bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Very interesting post, I am alway curious about what the world thinks of us and why. Could you elaborate on exactly what obama did to restore your faith in America and exactly what Bush did to lose it in the first place and it would be informative to know what you thought of America when Clinton was pres, thanks.
    For me, there are two aspects to it, which are connected. The first is more objective, it's policy. The other is more subjective, it's tone and style.

    Maybe it's due to cultural differences, but Bush came across as extremely arrogant. His martialic speeches, his "cowboy rhetorics". On the policy side, I felt he had a sledgehammer approach to diplomacy. He treated even America's closest allies like vassals. Think of the famous "who is not with us, is against us" quote. In my ears, and that of many Germans, it sounds like "shut up and do what I say". Or when he kept referring to fighting a "crusade". First of all, since when were crusades a good thing? And second, have you any idea how that sounds in the ears of Muslims? Bush more or less confirmed all the ugly prejudices about America that exist here: Insensitive, self-centered, arrogant and a bit primitive.

    The last straw was how Germans and the German government were treated by Bush, just because we opposed the Iraq war. It's not that opposing the war is an illegitimate position to take, many Americans did that too. But Bush fueled many ugly anti-European sentiments among Americans, think of the "Old Europe" label or the constant accusation of "anti-Americanism" -- as if hating Bush's policies equals hating America. Of course, former German Chancellor Schröder played his part too, he was hardly more diplomatic. But I think that was justified, he just showed Bush the mirror and replied in the same language Bush spoke.

    Now Obama was a radical change in tone. Even before he was elected, he went to Berlin and held a moving speech that showed he understands Germans and Europeans and knows how they tick. (For Bush fans, even showing the slightest respect and interest in Europe is probably "kowtowing" already, a weakness, despite Germany being a close ally. Indeed Obama was attacked for it.) Obama did continue many of Bush's policies, but unlike Bush, he always coordinated his efforts with the European allies. He did not give up the UN and did not try to actively obstruct it as Bush did, but used it when it was helpful (despite all its flaws, the UN is important and stands for a different, more cooperative approach to international politics). For example, the mission in Libya found broad agreement in the UN.

    Now Obama does and did many things I do not agree with. For example, he has even expanded many anti-terror laws which arguably violate civil rights. Obama is a politician I disagree with, but whom I respect. Bush, on the other side, does not live in the same world I live in. Probably not even on the same planet.

    Bush's style was entirely America-centered, addressing those ignorant Americans who think Americans are better than non-Americans, who don't find Europe on a map. Who cares what the rest of the world thinks? We do what we want, and the pussies who disagree can go **** themselves. Obama acknowledges that there are more countries on this planet than just America.
    Last edited by German guy; 02-19-12 at 11:29 AM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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