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Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

Would you vote for an atheist president with your views?

  • Yes, I would, his beliefs shouldn't matter

    Votes: 52 89.7%

  • No, he needs to believe in God, even if he agrees with me

    Votes: 6 10.3%
  • Total voters
    58
OhIsee.Then said:
If that's all the amendment process is for: "... to suit our political biases." then we really don't need it, do we?
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I ought to have been more clear - the political biases of five old guys wearing black dresses, as opposed to the biases of the vast majority of a republic populated by 300 million people.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Religion itself doesn't tell anything about that person, honestly - getting to know them would. Learning their values and views - not just what they claim they believe in.

I think the basics of religious beliefs are built on the most ridiculous and silly ideas - ever . . . the stuff that comes out of my Mom's mouth is just absolutely unbelievable to me that her, as an educated modern woman in this era, still believes what she believes. It is illogical.

Now - in order to still see religious people for being capable of grounded intelligence: I have to overlook their religious views and pretend that they're still capable of being rational and showing a glimmer of common sense and reason.

For me: religious beliefs are a problem . . . and yet I can manage to overlook it and I see that it has little impact on the conduct of many - we can take our running mates in the last year as an example.
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This is not an ad-hom, but since we are exploring the subject of core values...

Can you see how your response could be construed as arrogant?

"I think the basics of religious beliefs are built on the most ridiculous and silly ideas - ever . . . the stuff that comes out of my Mom's mouth is just absolutely unbelievable to me that her, as an educated modern woman in this era, still believes what she believes." - You are showing an arrogant attitude toward your own mother

"Now - in order to still see religious people for being capable of grounded intelligence: I have to overlook their religious views and pretend that they're still capable of being rational and showing a glimmer of common sense and reason." - You are showing arrogance toward all religious people

"For me: religious beliefs are a problem . . . and yet I can manage to overlook it..." More condescending and arrogant foolishness.



Now, if you were religious, you would know timeless proverbs like this one from King Solomon:

I am Wisdom.
--Common Sense is my closest friend;
I possess knowledge and sound judgment.

If you respect the LORD, you will hate evil.
I hate pride and conceit and deceitful lies.

I am strong, and I offer sensible advice and sound judgment.
By my power kings govern, and rulers make laws that are fair.
Every honest leader rules with help from me.

I love everyone who loves me, and I will be found by all who honestly search.

I can make you rich and famous, important and successful.
What you receive from me is more valuable than even the finest gold or the purest silver.
I always do what is right, and I give great riches to everyone who loves me.

From the beginning, I was with the LORD.
I was there before he began to create the earth.
At the very first, the LORD gave life to me.
 
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TheLastIndependent said:
Sadly religous belief does not always translate to moral values. There are a lot of judgemental Christians. I also know an atheist who couldn't have better moral values.
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I agree that there are some people, who call themselves "Christian," who are not. In fact, the Christian label can be very misleading, because very few who claim to be faithful actually have any fear of God in their hearts.

To me, the heart of a good person is unselfish and not arrogant. How can someone who is too prideful to submit to God have those traits?
 
Peter Grimm said:
I agree that there are some people, who call themselves "Christian," who are not. In fact, the Christian label can be very misleading, because very few who claim to be faithful actually have any fear of God in their hearts.

To me, the heart of a good person is unselfish and not arrogant. How can someone who is too prideful to submit to God have those traits?
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I don't know? How is someone so arrogant that they think atheists can't be a good person have those traits?
 
Ikari said:
I don't know? How is someone so arrogant that they think atheists can't be a good person have those traits?
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Religion teaches us our own limitations. It is humble to accept that there is a greater intelligence out there than our own, that we are created by the good graces of God, and that we owe our existence to Him.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Religion teaches us our own limitations. It is humble to accept that there is a greater intelligence out there than our own, that we are created by the good graces of God, and that we owe our existence to Him.
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K. Yet less you know everything there is to know about humanity, you can't really say that one who does not believe in such a god cannot be a good person. That's just personal bias and prejudice based upon your personal beliefs.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I agree that there are some people, who call themselves "Christian," who are not. In fact, the Christian label can be very misleading, because very few who claim to be faithful actually have any fear of God in their hearts.

To me, the heart of a good person is unselfish and not arrogant. How can someone who is too prideful to submit to God have those traits?
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But there are non-religious people that are selfless and humble. I'm not saying that religous people don't have good moral values, I'm only saying that non-religous people can possess the same traits.
 
Peter Grimm said:
How can an atheist define morality?
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By common sense and deductive reasoning, just like everyone else. Problem is some among us have significantly less than others.
 
Peter Grimm said:
How can an atheist define morality?
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But that's just the naturally arrogant side of your argument coming out. Why couldn't they? Intelligence and empathy were not solely rewarded to the religious.
 
Peter Grimm said:
How can an atheist define morality?
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A girl in my highschool: she is much humbler than me and much kinder. She helps others even if it may hurt her. She is atheist. I knew her for over a year before I knew she was atheist. Moral values aren't religion-exclusive.
 
Hare said:
By common sense and deductive reasoning, just like everyone else. Problem is some among us have significantly less than others.
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What role does deductive reasoning have in morality? Serious question.
 
Ikari said:
But that's just the naturally arrogant side of your argument coming out. Why couldn't they? Intelligence and empathy were not solely rewarded to the religious.
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Intelligence has nothing to do with morality. In fact, intelligence without wisdom has lead to some of the biggest breaches of morality in human history.

Empathy: I will agree this plays a huge role. But is it enough just to feel it, or shouldn't there be some sort of verbal exploration of the concept?
 
TheLastIndependent said:
A girl in my highschool: she is much humbler than me and much kinder. She helps others even if it may hurt her. She is atheist. I knew her for over a year before I knew she was atheist. Moral values aren't religion-exclusive.
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Maybe not. But I don't think I could trust a president who wasn't religious. So much of their personality that we see is fake. It's not like that girl who you knew for a year.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Intelligence has nothing to do with morality.
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Intellect is indeed a major part of morality. It takes knowledge of right and wrong to know there is a right and wrong. Without intelligence, we'd all be sitting around throwing our poo and there would be no morality.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Maybe not. But I don't think I could trust a president who wasn't religious. So much of their personality that we see is fake. It's not like that girl who you knew for a year.
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That's pretty arrogant, stating that the non-religious cannot be honest.
 
Ikari said:
Intellect is indeed a major part of morality. It takes knowledge of right and wrong to know there is a right and wrong. Without intelligence, we'd all be sitting around throwing our poo and there would be no morality.
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So more intelligent people are more moral?
 
Peter Grimm said:
So more intelligent people are more moral?
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Nope, but without intelligence you cannot develop a moral code. Intellect does not guarantee morality, but you cannot have morality without it.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Nah, I stated that politicians are plastic and fake. At least if they're religious, I know what they believe.
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Ahh OK, that didn't come through in the quote; but fair enough. Though we've made a habit of only voting for "religious" candidates, and perhaps you see the mess we're in now. Being religious is no guarantee of morality either.
 
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Peter Grimm said:
Nah, I stated that politicians are plastic and fake. At least if they're religious, I know what they believe.
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How do you know they are not fake religious?
 
Ikari said:
Nope, but without intelligence you cannot develop a moral code. Intellect does not guarantee morality, but you cannot have morality without it.
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Well, you can if you never question authority, and there are people who do live that way.
 
lizzie said:
Well, you can if you never question authority, and there are people who do live that way.
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Individually, yes. Human's have free will; they can choose not to exercise it. That's why collectively we've written it into religious text as well as other societal reinforces .
 
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