View Poll Results: Would you vote for an atheist president with your views?

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  • Yes, I would, his beliefs shouldn't matter

    64 90.14%
  • No, he needs to believe in God, even if he agrees with me

    7 9.86%
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Thread: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

  1. #71
    Educator Black_Zawisza's Avatar
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    How many thousands of times will people spew this crap? I mean isnt this the lesser of two evil argument? What you are saying is that religion is evil but not as evil as Atheism, but non the less still evil.
    I'm saying that I would rather live in a theocratic Muslim state than an atheistic one. Naturally, I would prefer a secular state to both.

  2. #72
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Ever heard of these fellas?
    Life's not always fair, and the bad guys aren't always defeated in some kind of ironic, feel good twist. If we focus more on a magical second life, as opposed to this one, the only one we know, then men like those will be able to hold power, because we will be content to let them do as they please, so long as we are rewarded later on.

    Besides, they have been judged and punished. They're your go to examples of evil in the last century. The Hitlers changed their name. Our rewards or punishments come from the legacy we leave, not whether we're perpetually high in heaven or miserable in hell. They will go down in history as terrible people, disowned by their families, and in Hitler's case, a source for national shame. His entire culture rejects him and everything he stood for. That's real punishment. Literally everything he struggled for was in vain. He wasted his life, and made the world a worse place for being in it. How would you like to have a legacy like that? I know I wouldn't.

    So actually... maybe life is fair. The good are rewarded and the wicked are punished. Just not the way you'd like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    I'm saying that I would rather live in a theocratic Muslim state than an atheistic one. Naturally, I would prefer a secular state to both.
    How is an atheistic state not a secular one? Both are characterized by a disinterest in religion.
    Last edited by Paschendale; 02-19-12 at 11:33 PM.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    I'm saying that I would rather live in a theocratic Muslim state than an atheistic one. Naturally, I would prefer a secular state to both.
    Yes I am aware that Christians believe that other religions are preferable over Atheism because their work is mostly done. But do you prefer A Christian state over a secular state?

  4. #74
    Educator Black_Zawisza's Avatar
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Life's not always fair, and the bad guys aren't always defeated in some kind of ironic, feel good twist. If we focus more on a magical second life, as opposed to this one, the only one we know, then men like those will be able to hold power, because we will be content to let them do as they please, so long as we are rewarded later on.
    It's not an either/or proposition. Why not focus on both?

    Besides, they have been judged and punished. They're your go to examples of evil in the last century. The Hitlers changed their name. Our rewards or punishments come from the legacy we leave, not whether we're perpetually high in heaven or miserable in hell. They will go down in history as terrible people, disowned by their families, and in Hitler's case, a source for national shame. His entire culture rejects him and everything he stood for. That's real punishment. Literally everything he struggled for was in vain. He wasted his life, and made the world a worse place for being in it. How would you like to have a legacy like that? I know I wouldn't.
    You'd care about your mortal legacy more than you would care about heaven or hell? Huh?

    That's because you're a normal person. There are people out there who couldn't care less about such things.

    So actually... maybe life is fair. The good are rewarded and the wicked are punished. Just not the way you'd like.
    Assuming a materialist universe, I'll wager that few of them have been punished in ways that matter to them.


    How is an atheistic state not a secular one? Both are characterized by a disinterest in religion.
    State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Secular state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Black_Zawisza; 02-19-12 at 11:47 PM.

  5. #75
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yes I am aware that Christians believe that other religions are preferable over Atheism because their work is mostly done. But do you prefer A Christian state over a secular state?
    A secular state, I would hope. If I answered otherwise, I'd be no libertarian.
    Last edited by Black_Zawisza; 02-19-12 at 11:50 PM.

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    God is not the legal definer of our laws, the Constitution is. In fact the framers were quite clear on that matter. And where the framers got their ideas is not relevant since it is clear that no religious test shall be given to anybody in the government. SO your social contract is only a personal opinion.
    The Constitution pre-supposed that rights exist, and the Decleration of Independance says they come from God. Our founders agreed that there was a God and that this is where our rights come from, so if you don't believe in God then you therefore can't logicaly believe in any rights God has given, because you can't receave anything from anyone who doesn't exist.

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    It's *the* social contract, not *my* social contract; I didn't write it and it doesn't only apply to me.

  7. #77
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Yes I would under the proper circumstances. If the atheist takes a proper stance on restoring constitutional restrictions and protocols he would get my vote, if he is close enough on liberty and proper governance that could be fine as well. My only concern would be if the atheist took a hard line against other beliefs legally, but then again a proper constitutionalist would not do that so it's a moot point. I would vote for the best candidate regardless of their spiritual beliefs.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The Constitution pre-supposed that rights exist, and the Decleration of Independance says they come from God. Our founders agreed that there was a God and that this is where our rights come from, so if you don't believe in God then you therefore can't logicaly believe in any rights God has given, because you can't receave anything from anyone who doesn't exist.

    ***
    It's *the* social contract, not *my* social contract; I didn't write it and it doesn't only apply to me.
    I am sure that circular reasoning makes complete sense to you. But tell me then why the effort to create a secular state by the framers of the Constitution?

    Lol it never gets old to listen to Christians assert that only Christians are moral because an entity that no one can prove exists told them so. The irony is that you are saying that I am immoral because I am an Atheist. WHo died and made you god?

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Maybe nobody has to give them to you; just the fact that you are an intelligent and conscious being means that you automatically have your rights instead of it being a gift.
    It's a gift because God made us to be intelligent beings to then inherently posses various rights.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-20-12 at 01:04 AM.

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Religion should never be considered in an election so yes I would vote for an athiest as the commander in chief. History has shown that religion causes conflict and violence. People's beliefs influence their actions on a day to day basis. So, when we give someone a large amount of power, the interests they have should be in the welfare of those he represents, and it should not be influenced by anything else... Putting someone in power who uses their religion to influence their decisions which effect the lives of millions is dangerous. And what people don't understand:
    "God made so many different kinds of people. Why would he allow only one way to serve him?"
    - Martin Buber
    If he who is in power must have his actions dictated by his beliefs, let he who is in power be one with no belief.

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