View Poll Results: Would you vote for an atheist president with your views?

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  • Yes, I would, his beliefs shouldn't matter

    64 90.14%
  • No, he needs to believe in God, even if he agrees with me

    7 9.86%
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Thread: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

  1. #61
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Ever heard of these fellas? What's your point?
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    Your overstating the ties between Marxism and atheism. Atheism in communist dictatorships comes from a specific type of interpretation; Marxist dialectical materialism. Atheism comes from the political ideaology. Just because a leader was Marxist doesn't create some sort of inherent tie to atheism.
    I'm not saying that there are ties between Marxism and atheism, or even totalitarianism and atheism in particular. I have a similar issue with religions that don't posit a life after this one.

    How many people have those five killed compared to the four I presented? Or, perhaps a fairer challenge, what proportion of the people they governed did they kill?

  2. #62
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    well - their religoius beliefs are why they won't support an athiest: they're told from day one that being belief-less is godlessness and puts you in league with the devil himself.
    Well, yeah - that's my point. Since religion influences their political decisions and behavior, then they will likely consider the religion of the candidate. Since non-belief does not influence atheists' political decisions to the same extent, then atheists will be less likely to be impacted by the religion or lack thereof of the candidate. All of this is why religious people aren't often going to 'let go' of their beliefs in the same way atheists have.

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    How many people have those five killed compared to the four I presented? Or, perhaps a fairer challenge, what proportion of the people they governed did they kill?
    Your point is baseless. The atheism of the Soviet Union and the Khmer Rogue wasn't really the active agent behind their atrocities. Had they been religious and Marxist, they would've done the same things. The difference between Stalin and King Abdullah is Abdullah uses Islamism directly for his atrocities and human rights abuses. Stalin/Pol Pot's "atheism" was secondary at best and not really a contributing factor behind their murderous reigns.

  4. #64
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    To quote Voltaire, "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." If in the afterlife I am not held accountable for my current actions, and I'm in a position of absolute power, what incentive do I have to not abuse it?
    Human compassion, maybe?

    BTW Voltaire was a deist, and didn't believe in any of the superstition and magic surrounding God. He believed that natural sequences could still explain the world. So he probably wouldn't say that God made moral rules, and was probably making a comment on human stupidity rather than human morality.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  5. #65
    Educator Black_Zawisza's Avatar
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Human compassion, maybe?

    BTW Voltaire was a deist, and didn't believe in any of the superstition and magic surrounding God. He believed that natural sequences could still explain the world. So he probably wouldn't say that God made moral rules, and was probably making a comment on human stupidity rather than human morality.
    I beg to differ. The following reveals the context from his Epistle to the author of the book, The Three Impostors:

    "If the heavens, stripped of his noble imprint,
    Could ever cease to attest to his being,
    If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
    Let the wise man announce him and kings fear him.
    Kings, if you oppress me, if your eminencies disdain
    The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow,
    My avenger is in the heavens: learn to tremble.
    Such, at least, is the fruit of a useful creed."

  6. #66
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    Religion requires belief/faith in what one cannot see or prove. How is that comparable to measuring the ocean temp going up 1 degree?
    The belief is not in whether or not the climate changes, but in whether or not human presence on the planet is causing it. We haven't had enough time (not nearly enough time) yet to prove that is the case. Until there is ample time and data, those who believe we are causing it merely believe it.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Human compassion, maybe?
    It all depends on one's understanding of the term compassion. Some view it as self-sacrifice regardless of reality. Others (myself included) view it as understanding, without the necessity of corrective action.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  8. #68
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    would I vote for an atheist?... it's possible, but probably not... it depends on how militant he is about his atheism and how he feels about other peoples religion.
    Atheists who are fair and reasonable towards religion are few and far between.
    I honestly don't think they are few and far between, unless you're talking about militant atheists on the internet who band together to trash-talk ALL religion. I'm non-religious. I don't believe there is a divine diety in the sky. However, I'm also extremely pro-religious freedom... ALL religious freedom. I was arguing that the Ground Zero Mosque had every right to exist at the same time I was arguing that a Southern Baptist Church had every right to build on property that was next to a mosque.

    The problem I see with religion as a whole is that (A) most people are only concerned with the freedom of their personal religion, and not concerned with the freedom of other religions; and (B) I believe government must be secular in order to prevent religious ideology of any kind from being codified into law and forced on an entire populace. We've seen what Islamic theocracies have wrought. We've seen what Jewish theocracies have wrought. I have no doubt that Christian theocracies would wreak the same.

    A true atheist will staunchly support the freedom of all religions, if for no other reason that to support the freedom of the non-religious in the bargain.

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    The problem I see with religion as a whole is that (A) most people are only concerned with the freedom of their personal religion, and not concerned with the freedom of other religions; and (B) I believe government must be secular in order to prevent religious ideology of any kind from being codified into law and forced on an entire populace. We've seen what Islamic theocracies have wrought. We've seen what Jewish theocracies have wrought. I have no doubt that Christian theocracies would wreak the same.

    A true atheist will staunchly support the freedom of all religions, if for no other reason that to support the freedom of the non-religious in the bargain.
    I've never met an atheist whom I found to be intolerant of the religious. He may have thought they were silly and superstitious, but always the tolerant gentleman. In addition, the atheists I know, and have known, had good sound moral principles (well, except for one, and he was just a plain old hedonist ).
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  10. #70
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    I'm not saying that there are ties between Marxism and atheism, or even totalitarianism and atheism in particular. I have a similar issue with religions that don't posit a life after this one.

    How many people have those five killed compared to the four I presented? Or, perhaps a fairer challenge, what proportion of the people they governed did they kill?
    How many thousands of times will people spew this crap? I mean isnt this the lesser of two evil argument? What you are saying is that religion is evil but not as evil as Atheism, but non the less still evil.

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