View Poll Results: Would you vote for an atheist president with your views?

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  • Yes, I would, his beliefs shouldn't matter

    64 90.14%
  • No, he needs to believe in God, even if he agrees with me

    7 9.86%
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Thread: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

  1. #231
    Sage

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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yea ok, anyways..

    A secular government is the only possible way for liberty to stay intact. When theists go all ballistic and start asserting that only religious people can be moral, well that my friend is a strike against liberty. And right now we are two down on the last inning and our worst batters are up next.

    The Republican party is trying to turn politics into who is the best religious leader wins. There are no Atheists running for President. Zero zilch as in none. Us Atheists are not wanting to turn this country into an Atheist utopia. There is no political might that is Atheist in America. So the issue is not what Atheists are doing to this country, it is what the Religious Right is doing to this country. Preaching that a section of society is immoral sounds familiar.

    Here is the reality that you are missing: Christians assert that they are the moral leaders of the world. Christians single out Atheists (because of the writings in the bible) as immoral subhuman scabs on society. y. Hence the need to try to convert all of us Atheists. Christians promote conflict by insisting that Atheists cannot be moral without god. Is not bigotry a sin?

    Electoral Colleges make a lot of since when people start making silly decisions like asserting that certain groups are more moral than others.
    This has nothing to do with my original comment nor my continuation of the conversation with Removable Mind. It's almost as if you brought a bunch of baggage into the thread regarding Christianity and atheism that you're projecting all over onto my comments.

    It is obvious even from your own opinions that Christians intend to banish Atheists from the Government and ultimately from societ
    lol wut?

  2. #232
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This has nothing to do with my original comment nor my continuation of the conversation with Removable Mind. It's almost as if you brought a bunch of baggage into the thread regarding Christianity and atheism that you're projecting all over onto my comments.

    lol wut?
    As a separate entity I bring ideas into the conversation that did not come from you. That is what is great about debates, that people have individual thoughts. I did not intend to mindlessly mimic your conversation with Removable Mind.

    But oh well

  3. #233
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    We've somehow moved away from the intent of the thread.

    Question: Would a person of faith vote for a person who is not?

    Blasting out stereotypical behaviors that one person perceives they've observed or assumes to be associated with another's belief system...will get us nowhere in this discourse.

  4. #234
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Personally I prefer a president who shares in the Christian faith, however the Constitution says that no religious test is allowed. Now that applies to the qualifications applied by government, and I wonder if it is fair that I apply such a test. I'm slight conflicted about this though I tend toward choosing someone of faith.
    In my opinion, which may not count for much, you are allowed as an individual voter to apply any test you want. And what is more, the fact that you are conflicted indicates that you are considering many things. What more could a fellow American ask for. Just because you come up with a different answer than I do in many cases is secondary to me.

  5. #235
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree.


    I never understand this assertion. I am a theist and it's incredibly easy for me to comprehend and relate to the atheist position. I don't see why an atheist can't do the same.
    The various types of theist's positions are difficult for atheists to comprehend or relate to because we (atheist) live life empirically.

    As I stated before. As far as I am aware, there are no abilities by human beings to think or act in supernatural ways. I can't give myself to accept without scrutiny or skepticism something created by man who says, "my writings are an inspiration of the creator of the universe." so therefore believe what I say....

    Before monotheism there was polytheism. I don't see Jewish, Muslim, or Christian communities pondering the genuine possibility that there are many gods. In fact they see it as blasphemy. There's no second thoughts are comprehending...or relating to these beliefs. Well, to consider my point, think of Hinduism. Can you comprehend it...or relate to the many gods Hindus believe in?

    If you walk into an empty room...you won't be looking for a chair to sit down in. And you aren't going to pick a spot in the room and by reason of faith begin to sit down as though there is a chair in the room. The chair...just doesn't exist in your mind, your conscious awareness, or you subconsciousness...so it's hard to comprehend or relate to the possibility that there is a chair somewhere in the room.

  6. #236
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    As a separate entity I bring ideas into the conversation that did not come from you. That is what is great about debates, that people have individual thoughts. I did not intend to mindlessly mimic your conversation with Removable Mind.

    But oh well
    I can't have a conversation with someone who refuses to accurately address anything I said. I don't have one way conversations.

  7. #237
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    We've somehow moved away from the intent of the thread.

    Question: Would a person of faith vote for a person who is not?

    Blasting out stereotypical behaviors that one person perceives they've observed or assumes to be associated with another's belief system...will get us nowhere in this discourse.
    Actually, the behavior that we perceive from the other side is entirely relevant to the question since how theists perceive atheists can directly contribute to why or why not they would vote for an atheist. There have been several comments in this thread implying that theists would not vote for atheists simply out of bigotry or lack of understanding. However, it's entirely possible that they have predominantly experienced intolerant atheists in their personal lives or through the media. This is exactly what happens with evangelical Christianity as well. Many people experience predominantly negative behavior from and apply that to evangelical Christian candidates.

    Consequently, to say that theists wouldn't elect an atheist simply out of bigotry is ridiculous (which was said earlier). It's equally ridiculous to imply that one's perceptions of another's behavior aren't relevant to the discussion. The only thing that is irrelevant, I think, is people's sensitive reactions to other people's perceptions of their group.

  8. #238
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Actually, the behavior that we perceive from the other side is entirely relevant to the question since how theists perceive atheists can directly contribute to why or why not they would vote for an atheist. There have been several comments in this thread implying that theists would not vote for atheists simply out of bigotry or lack of understanding. However, it's entirely possible that they have predominantly experienced intolerant atheists in their personal lives or through the media. This is exactly what happens with evangelical Christianity as well. Many people experience predominantly negative behavior from and apply that to evangelical Christian candidates.

    Consequently, to say that theists wouldn't elect an atheist simply out of bigotry is ridiculous (which was said earlier). It's equally ridiculous to imply that one's perceptions of another's behavior aren't relevant to the discussion. The only thing that is irrelevant, I think, is people's sensitive reactions to other people's perceptions of their group.
    I'm not a spring chicken.

    All of my voting life I've voted for "theists". I don't make an scrutiny of his or her particular religion. Why? I pay way more attention to what empirical information I can gather about the politician. In other words...what they say and do are empirical ways to understand who the person is. Sometime printed information shares more about who they are....as indicated by quotes and reported events in which the politician has participated. Television and radio are other mediums to watch and listen to another person as they express (verbalize - an empirical action) his or her views, etc.

    So there are a lot of criteria that's more important to me.

    HOWEVER, say for instance when Pat Robertson ran for president. He frequently talked about his conversations with God. Sorry, that's a show stopper for me because I don't believe that's rational. Since that time Robertson has made outrageous claims about devastating events that have affected humanity. So, he's just not on my list of folks that I would lend my time to.

  9. #239
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    The various types of theist's positions are difficult for atheists to comprehend or relate to because we (atheist) live life empirically.
    Sure, but imagination enables us put ourselves in other people's mindsets.

    As I stated before. As far as I am aware, there are no abilities by human beings to think or act in supernatural ways. I can't give myself to accept without scrutiny or skepticism something created by man who says, "my writings are an inspiration of the creator of the universe." so therefore believe what I say....
    I'm talking about comprehension and relation, not acceptance without skepticism and scrutiny. Those are two very different things. I do not accept atheism nor do I accept Islam. However, I can comprehend and relate to both positions.

    Before monotheism there was polytheism. I don't see Jewish, Muslim, or Christian communities pondering the genuine possibility that there are many gods. In fact they see it as blasphemy. There's no second thoughts are comprehending...or relating to these beliefs.
    What you're describing here, to me, is the stubbornness and small mindedness of individuals - individuals who are unwilling to imagine the world through other people's perspectives. What you do not describe is an inability to comprehend or relate to different beliefs. As I said, I am more than able to comprehend and relate to beliefs and positions on theism and religion that differ greatly from my own. There are many other people who are just as a capable. Consequently, I tend to think that inability to comprehend and relate is more of a individual problem than a group problem.

    Well, to consider my point, think of Hinduism. Can you comprehend it...or relate to the many gods Hindus believe in?
    I don't know much about Hinduism, but I imagine if I learned, I certainly could. I'm only able to comprehend and relate to things that I have both been exposed to in a significant manner and that I have devoted ample thought too. From my vantage point, the only thing that one needs to comprehend different beliefs on theism and religion is the ability to understand and relate to human beings. Theist and atheist thoughts are human thoughts that are based in experience. If you find out what experiences and logic founds a belief, then comprehension and relation is possible.

    What we may not be able to do is accept and fully connect to beliefs and positions that differ from our own. However, comprehension and relation are separate ideas that I think are entirely possible.

    If you walk into an empty room...you won't be looking for a chair to sit down in. And you aren't going to pick a spot in the room and by reason of faith begin to sit down as though there is a chair in the room. The chair...just doesn't exist in your mind, your conscious awareness, or you subconsciousness...so it's hard to comprehend or relate to the possibility that there is a chair somewhere in the room.
    This analogy makes your argument more easy to understand. Even so, if you're in a room of 100 people who believe that there is a chair in the room, then they will have explanations for their beliefs that you should be able to comprehend and relate to based on your common humanity. Human beliefs are based in human thought and human experience. Consequently, human beings ought to be able to relate them.

  10. #240
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I'm not a spring chicken.

    All of my voting life I've voted for "theists". I don't make an scrutiny of his or her particular religion. Why? I pay way more attention to what empirical information I can gather about the politician. In other words...what they say and do are empirical ways to understand who the person is. Sometime printed information shares more about who they are....as indicated by quotes and reported events in which the politician has participated. Television and radio are other mediums to watch and listen to another person as they express (verbalize - an empirical action) his or her views, etc.

    So there are a lot of criteria that's more important to me.

    HOWEVER, say for instance when Pat Robertson ran for president. He frequently talked about his conversations with God. Sorry, that's a show stopper for me because I don't believe that's rational. Since that time Robertson has made outrageous claims about devastating events that have affected humanity. So, he's just not on my list of folks that I would lend my time to.
    The bold part is what I'm talking about. Behavior is entirely relevant to this discussion, particularly if you want to understand why some theists might not want to vote for an atheist. If you see a certain group, whether it be atheists or evangelical Christians displaying a pattern of behavior, it's going to inform your decision.

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