View Poll Results: Would you vote for an atheist president with your views?

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  • Yes, I would, his beliefs shouldn't matter

    64 90.14%
  • No, he needs to believe in God, even if he agrees with me

    7 9.86%
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Thread: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

  1. #121
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Let me try to explain again. I'm not certain, therefore I have skepticism. I was the same when I thought my design had an 80% chance of working.
    Ok, well, because you're 80% certain of it, you support those politicians that will essentially try to force others to conform their standards and behaviors regarding the environment and that includes people who are not as certain as you. This is no different, at all, than those who approach politics from a religious perspective, which was my point in the first place.

  2. #122
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Ok, well, because you're 80% certain of it, you support those politicians that will essentially try to force others to conform their standards and behaviors regarding the environment and that includes people who are not as certain as you. This is no different, at all, than those who approach politics from a religious perspective, which was my point in the first place.
    Nope. You jump to conclusions often. I think we are working on it hard enough right now. More people are coming to the conclusion that we are probably causing some of it. If it gets to the point where they are the majority they will elect more politicians that support doing something about it since it appears to be likely. The minority will have to come along as they do now.
    You are wanting the same certainty that religion gives you about your religious beliefs. I don't expect to have that certainty about global warming that you appear to need. You want it to be the same binary certainty you have about your religious beliefs when it comes to things like global warming. The real world is not like that.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 02-20-12 at 04:06 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    The Constitution is a document created to change with the times. The Declaration of Independence was written to King George why we were revolting. It has no legislative value.
    Yes, and that's why the amendment process exists - so we don't have to blatantly misinterpret the meaning of a "living document" to suit our political biases.

  4. #124
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Yes, and that's why the amendment process exists - so we don't have to blatantly misinterpret the meaning of a "living document" to suit our political biases.
    If that's all the amendment process is for: "... to suit our political biases." then we really don't need it, do we?
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 02-20-12 at 05:28 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Rights are inherant in every being. God created us as such being who automatically have rights. "God given rights" just means God is ultimately responsible for our having rights today.
    But then it's fallacious to say that an atheist president cannot uphold our rights. We believe that humans have the same rights that you believe they have, except without God giving it to them. We believe that humans have those rights and that the Bill of Rights in the Constitution restricts government oppression of those rights, not that the government gives it to them.
    Last edited by MadLib; 02-20-12 at 05:30 PM.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    If that's all the amendment process is for: "... to suit our political biases." then we really don't need it, do we?
    He was saying that the purpose of the Ammendment process is to stop that, I believe.

  7. #127
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    If that's all the amendment process is for: "... to suit our political biases." then we really don't need it, do we?
    I ought to have been more clear - the political biases of five old guys wearing black dresses, as opposed to the biases of the vast majority of a republic populated by 300 million people.

  8. #128
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Religion itself doesn't tell anything about that person, honestly - getting to know them would. Learning their values and views - not just what they claim they believe in.

    I think the basics of religious beliefs are built on the most ridiculous and silly ideas - ever . . . the stuff that comes out of my Mom's mouth is just absolutely unbelievable to me that her, as an educated modern woman in this era, still believes what she believes. It is illogical.

    Now - in order to still see religious people for being capable of grounded intelligence: I have to overlook their religious views and pretend that they're still capable of being rational and showing a glimmer of common sense and reason.

    For me: religious beliefs are a problem . . . and yet I can manage to overlook it and I see that it has little impact on the conduct of many - we can take our running mates in the last year as an example.
    This is not an ad-hom, but since we are exploring the subject of core values...

    Can you see how your response could be construed as arrogant?

    "I think the basics of religious beliefs are built on the most ridiculous and silly ideas - ever . . . the stuff that comes out of my Mom's mouth is just absolutely unbelievable to me that her, as an educated modern woman in this era, still believes what she believes." - You are showing an arrogant attitude toward your own mother

    "Now - in order to still see religious people for being capable of grounded intelligence: I have to overlook their religious views and pretend that they're still capable of being rational and showing a glimmer of common sense and reason." - You are showing arrogance toward all religious people

    "For me: religious beliefs are a problem . . . and yet I can manage to overlook it..." More condescending and arrogant foolishness.



    Now, if you were religious, you would know timeless proverbs like this one from King Solomon:

    I am Wisdom.
    --Common Sense is my closest friend;
    I possess knowledge and sound judgment.

    If you respect the LORD, you will hate evil.
    I hate pride and conceit and deceitful lies.

    I am strong, and I offer sensible advice and sound judgment.
    By my power kings govern, and rulers make laws that are fair.
    Every honest leader rules with help from me.

    I love everyone who loves me, and I will be found by all who honestly search.

    I can make you rich and famous, important and successful.
    What you receive from me is more valuable than even the finest gold or the purest silver.
    I always do what is right, and I give great riches to everyone who loves me.

    From the beginning, I was with the LORD.
    I was there before he began to create the earth.
    At the very first, the LORD gave life to me.
    Last edited by Peter Grimm; 02-20-12 at 06:37 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Sadly religous belief does not always translate to moral values. There are a lot of judgemental Christians. I also know an atheist who couldn't have better moral values.
    I agree that there are some people, who call themselves "Christian," who are not. In fact, the Christian label can be very misleading, because very few who claim to be faithful actually have any fear of God in their hearts.

    To me, the heart of a good person is unselfish and not arrogant. How can someone who is too prideful to submit to God have those traits?

  10. #130
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    Re: Vote for an atheist president (for religious people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I agree that there are some people, who call themselves "Christian," who are not. In fact, the Christian label can be very misleading, because very few who claim to be faithful actually have any fear of God in their hearts.

    To me, the heart of a good person is unselfish and not arrogant. How can someone who is too prideful to submit to God have those traits?
    I don't know? How is someone so arrogant that they think atheists can't be a good person have those traits?
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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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