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Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

Can the Federal Government force a business to violate the owners religion?

  • Yes - but only if, like, it's, like, totally anachronistic, and stuff, like, cmon, man, stop whining

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    43

cpwill

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I've brought this up in a couple of other discussions on the HHS mandate.

Does the Federal Government have the right to force Muslim grocers to carry pork in their stores?
 
I've brought this up in a couple of other discussions on the HHS mandate.

Does the Federal Government have the right to force Muslim grocers to carry pork in their stores?

No, so the U.S. government should nationalize food distribution in order to ensure that every American has the opportunity to get the sustenance they need and want within their limits so that people's choices on the type of food available for them to buy, which may be limited in some areas due to a small pool of places to choose from, isn't restricted by the religious beliefs of store owners.
 
The federal government can and does do a whole lot with food (allegedly) as far as regulation is concerned. However, the store owner is (usually) left to decide for himself which products to carry. There's no constitutional obligation I can see to force independent store owners to carry pork if this violates their religion or they just don't want to.

What next? Outlawing kosher pickles?
 
The federal government can and does do a whole lot with food (allegedly) as far as regulation is concerned. However, the store owner is (usually) left to decide for himself which products to carry. There's no constitutional obligation I can see to force independent store owners to carry pork if this violates their religion or they just don't want to.

What next? Outlawing kosher pickles?

Well it depends.

It could be that I have a lot of opportunities with regards to store selection so I can just merely go to another store and buy pork if I need to.

But if I live in an isolated area in which I don't have much opportunity of store selection and the only convenient store is owned by a Muslim who refuses to sell pork even when beef and chicken prices has risen so high I can't afford to buy them and I'm allergic to seafood, then I don't see why my health should suffer because of someone else's religious views are limiting my choice.

And, if that's the case, I'm sure as hell going to vote to get rid of that limitation some how.
 
What exactly is the connection to the HHS thing?

It doesn't seem obvious.
 
I've brought this up in a couple of other discussions on the HHS mandate.

Does the Federal Government have the right to force Muslim grocers to carry pork in their stores?

No.. they don't.. No more than they can force a Kosher Deli to served pulled pork sandwiches........
 
Well it depends.

It could be that I have a lot of opportunities with regards to store selection so I can just merely go to another store and buy pork if I need to.

But if I live in an isolated area in which I don't have much opportunity of store selection and the only convenient store is owned by a Muslim who refuses to sell pork even when beef and chicken prices has risen so high I can't afford to buy them and I'm allergic to seafood, then I don't see why my health should suffer because of someone else's religious views are limiting my choice.

And, if that's the case, I'm sure as hell going to vote to get rid of that limitation some how.

That is a huge what if, I'd be curious to know how many people are in this kind of situation right now. Seriously how many people do you think are: In any area with only one food store in reasonable traveling distance, the store is owned by a Muslim, the store refuses to sell pork, you can't afford beef or chicken, you are allergic to seafood, and you need pork for a healthy diet? I doubt anyone in this country has a problem that freakin specific, so why don't we think "should we make this law" or "do the people we are making this law for even exist" before we start advocating its creation.
 
No, but i don't think a muslim owner would do that. Many of them sell alcohol and its also harem. It's all about the money. IF the owner thinks he can make money selling something that violates his religion he will do that.
 
Well it depends.

It could be that I have a lot of opportunities with regards to store selection so I can just merely go to another store and buy pork if I need to.

But if I live in an isolated area in which I don't have much opportunity of store selection and the only convenient store is owned by a Muslim who refuses to sell pork even when beef and chicken prices has risen so high I can't afford to buy them and I'm allergic to seafood, then I don't see why my health should suffer because of someone else's religious views are limiting my choice.

And, if that's the case, I'm sure as hell going to vote to get rid of that limitation some how.

Essentially this, like birth control, in cases where serious quality of life concerns are affected, accommodations should be made.

The difference being that birth control is almost always a quality of life issue while pork rarely is.
 
Another in the long line of "strawmen" from the right over the contraception kerfuffle. Next, it'll be "Should the government require Mormons who own a Starbucks franchise to serve espresso drinks?"

Look, I disagree with Obama on this one too, but really...

The more appropriate question in the regulation is "Should Muslim grocers be stopped from firing people who eat pork?" Some people who work for a Catholic hospital, may in the course of their sex lives choose to use contraception. Personal liberty, you know, something the right is supposedly all about.
 
Another in the long line of "strawmen" from the right over the contraception kerfuffle. Next, it'll be "Should the government require Mormons who own a Starbucks franchise to serve espresso drinks?"

Look, I disagree with Obama on this one too, but really...

The more appropriate question in the regulation is "Should Muslim grocers be stopped from firing people who eat pork?" Some people who work for a Catholic hospital, may in the course of their sex lives choose to use contraception. Personal liberty, you know, something the right is supposedly all about.

no, a better question is this: should a Muslim be allowed to deduct from his workers' salary, all the money used to pay for hospital bills dealing with alchohol poisoning?

should a Jew be able to deduct from his worker's salary, the money paid to a doctor used to treat someone suffering from food poisoing relating to eating pork?
 
That is a huge what if, I'd be curious to know how many people are in this kind of situation right now. Seriously how many people do you think are: In any area with only one food store in reasonable traveling distance, the store is owned by a Muslim, the store refuses to sell pork, you can't afford beef or chicken, you are allergic to seafood, and you need pork for a healthy diet? I doubt anyone in this country has a problem that freakin specific, so why don't we think "should we make this law" or "do the people we are making this law for even exist" before we start advocating its creation.

I live in a small town with only one grocery store. Now I'm lucky enough to be able to drive to a more urban area where I have more choices. But the town I live in is so poor that not everybody else does. A lot of people can't afford the gas to get to that urban area. So they are forced to buy from whatever that one store carries.

And food prices are, indeed, going to rise higher. There are a number of reasons for this. One is the increase in fuel prices that goes into the tractors used to cultivate and harvest food. Another is the global increase in the middle class wanting more protein in their diet, especially meat. This is especially the case in China.

So it's not that unrealistic of a scenario.

In fact, the most unrealistic aspect of it is that a Muslim store owner would refuse to sell pork to his customers who choose to buy it. Most businessmen want to earn a profit, not impose their own religious restrictions on others.
 
Well it depends.

It could be that I have a lot of opportunities with regards to store selection so I can just merely go to another store and buy pork if I need to.

But if I live in an isolated area in which I don't have much opportunity of store selection and the only convenient store is owned by a Muslim who refuses to sell pork even when beef and chicken prices has risen so high I can't afford to buy them and I'm allergic to seafood, then I don't see why my health should suffer because of someone else's religious views are limiting my choice.

And, if that's the case, I'm sure as hell going to vote to get rid of that limitation some how.

I think at this point, you go vegan.
 
Essentially this, like birth control, in cases where serious quality of life concerns are affected, accommodations should be made.

The difference being that birth control is almost always a quality of life issue while pork rarely is.

That's because people have a ton of options when it comes to the kind of meat they eat.

People are much more limited in the birth control options they can get.

And then there's the issue of people using birth control for reasons other than birth control to deal with other medical issues.
 
No, but i don't think a muslim owner would do that. Many of them sell alcohol and its also harem. It's all about the money. IF the owner thinks he can make money selling something that violates his religion he will do that.

god advises people to avoid taking alcohol in qoran but doesnt punish them for drinking it, but pork is damned ,maybe because of this conditioning muslims usually dont eat pork even if they drink alcohol..
 
No, but i don't think a muslim owner would do that. Many of them sell alcohol and its also harem. It's all about the money. IF the owner thinks he can make money selling something that violates his religion he will do that.

Can I ask HTF you happen to know the religion of your store owner?

Even if you could somehow prove they are Muslims, this is still a personal, business decision they get to make without the government's help (except for the liquor license part).

Whole Foods has decided to start selling genetically modified food....should the government step in there too?
 
That is a huge what if, I'd be curious to know how many people are in this kind of situation right now. Seriously how many people do you think are: In any area with only one food store in reasonable traveling distance, the store is owned by a Muslim, the store refuses to sell pork, you can't afford beef or chicken, you are allergic to seafood, and you need pork for a healthy diet? I doubt anyone in this country has a problem that freakin specific, so why don't we think "should we make this law" or "do the people we are making this law for even exist" before we start advocating its creation.

In rural Minnesota, there is a surprisingly high number of Somalis. I can imagine a day when one of them buys the grocery store, as in a lot of these towns there is only one. If/when they do, if they stop selling pork, the right will be all over it with screams of "sharia law!"

In fact, they already were all over a similar thing:

 
Can I ask HTF you happen to know the religion of your store owner?

Even if you could somehow prove they are Muslims, this is still a personal, business decision they get to make without the government's help (except for the liquor license part).

Whole Foods has decided to start selling genetically modified food....should the government step in there too?


This is really no different than walking into your local Kroger and demanding that they carry some obscure brand that you like..

The grocery business is all about shelf space.
 
This is really no different than walking into your local Kroger and demanding that they carry some obscure brand that you like..

The grocery business is all about shelf space.

No.

The issue in the OP isn't the Muslim grocer choosing not to carry a certain brand of pork. It's that they refuse to carry an entire item.
 
No.

The issue in the OP isn't the Muslim grocer choosing not to carry a certain brand of pork. It's that they refuse to carry an entire item.

if Catholics don't have to pay for the pill, condoms, or abortions, than Muslims don't have to carry pork or sell pork.

...that's if we value the religious rights of all...equally.
 
In rural Minnesota, there is a surprisingly high number of Somalis. I can imagine a day when one of them buys the grocery store, as in a lot of these towns there is only one. If/when they do, if they stop selling pork, the right will be all over it with screams of "sharia law!"

In fact, they already were all over a similar thing:



"Minnosotta seems to be on its way to be America's first Somalia Muslim state"

Get serious, I watched 10 seconds and stop after I heard that.

Unless someone can point to a real exactly of something being forced to go veggie or whatever to a radical and whacky combination of coincidences there's no argument to be made.
 
No.

The issue in the OP isn't the Muslim grocer choosing not to carry a certain brand of pork. It's that they refuse to carry an entire item.

I refuse to carry certain plants at my nursery.

what's the big deal if a Muslim doesn't want to carry pork? If it is a private business, he can carry or not carry whatever he d@mn well pleases, the reasons for such being religious or otherwise.
 
I've brought this up in a couple of other discussions on the HHS mandate.

Does the Federal Government have the right to force Muslim grocers to carry pork in their stores?

If they own the store then it's their property and they are free to carry or not carry pork at their discretion.
 
An employer doesn't own his employees' healthcare needs, just the obligation to provide for them.
 
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