View Poll Results: Can the Federal Government force a business to violate the owners religion?

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  • Yes

    4 7.84%
  • No

    45 88.24%
  • Yes - but only if, like, it's, like, totally anachronistic, and stuff, like, cmon, man, stop whining

    2 3.92%
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Thread: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    so, we should force Muslim grocers to sell pork, & force Jewish grocers to sell lobster, shrimp, and cheeseburgers...

    ...but we should allow Catholic institutions to NOT pay for the pill or IUD in their healthcare plans?

    the hypocrisy is astounding.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Can I ask HTF you happen to know the religion of your store owner?

    Even if you could somehow prove they are Muslims, this is still a personal, business decision they get to make without the government's help (except for the liquor license part).

    Whole Foods has decided to start selling genetically modified food....should the government step in there too?
    My dad used to own many liquor stores and he was in competition with many of the owners. He used to talk to them frequently. Some of them were muslim and their religion wasn't stopping them from selling anything nor should it. LIke i said. Its all about the benjamins.
    bears, bulls, white sox fan 4 life!!!

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    so, we should force Muslim grocers to sell pork, & force Jewish grocers to sell lobster, shrimp, and cheeseburgers...

    ...but we should allow Catholic institutions to NOT pay for the pill or IUD in their healthcare plans?

    the hypocrisy is astounding.
    No, I think Catholic institutions should pay for birth control in their employee healthcare plan if we're going to have employer-based health insurance.

    But I would much prefer that we not base healthcare on employer-based health insurance.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    How many other things can this apply to? How do you define stable? How do you define well-being? How many people do you know who exist in since a fine line of income that they can afford pork but not beef? This is ridiculous, its a complete hypothetical for a scenario which doesn't exist and you're solution is to have the government roll into down distributing pork patties or whatever else. Whos going to pay for that? Hell if you can't afford the pork itself, will you be able to afford the pork distribution tax?

    This whole scenario just reeks of silliness and self-entitlement.
    At the end of World War II the British government had to nationalize the health care industry in order to provide health care services to its people because its economy was so shattered that the British government was the only organization that could borrow the amount of money necessary to rebuild the private sector economy.

    So, yes, during times of economic emergency, I do think the government has the duty to provide what aid it needs to to its people to ensure their survival, health, and wellness.

    Now is it like that nationwide here in the U.S. right now? No. Not nationwide.

    But it is like that in a lot of areas hit hard by the Great Recession going on.

    BBC News - Panorama - America's homeless resort to tent cities

    Lack of the Safety Net: Homelessness and America's Tent Cities - The Takeaway

    So in areas hit that hard and that bad, yes, I do think the government has the duty to ensure people get the food they need, especially when the only reason why they don't have an opportunity for that food is because of someone else's religious beliefs.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    How many other things can this apply to? How do you define stable? How do you define well-being? How many people do you know who exist in since a fine line of income that they can afford pork but not beef? This is ridiculous, its a complete hypothetical for a scenario which doesn't exist and you're solution is to have the government roll into down distributing pork patties or whatever else. Whos going to pay for that? Hell if you can't afford the pork itself, will you be able to afford the pork distribution tax?

    This whole scenario just reeks of silliness and self-entitlement.
    While these questions are never easy to answer, they should not simply be disregarded because of that. Answering those questions is precisely what politics is for.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    At the end of World War II the British government had to nationalize the health care industry in order to provide health care services to its people because its economy was so shattered that the British government was the only organization that could borrow the amount of money necessary to rebuild the private sector economy.

    So, yes, during times of economic emergency, I do think the government has the duty to provide what aid it needs to to its people to ensure their survival, health, and wellness.

    Now is it like that nationwide here in the U.S. right now? No. Not nationwide.

    But it is like that in a lot of areas hit hard by the Great Recession going on.

    BBC News - Panorama - America's homeless resort to tent cities

    Lack of the Safety Net: Homelessness and America's Tent Cities - The Takeaway

    So in areas hit that hard and that bad, yes, I do think the government has the duty to ensure people get the food they need, especially when the only reason why they don't have an opportunity for that food is because of someone else's religious beliefs.
    I'm not talking about people like this, homeless for example. I'm talking about the person who meets your specific criteria. I'm talking about the person who is otherwise quite well off except the local store doesn't sell pork.

    Also the current situation in the US is nothing like post WW2 Britain, don't try to make a comparison.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not talking about people like this, homeless for example. I'm talking about the person who meets your specific criteria. I'm talking about the person who is otherwise quite well off except the local store doesn't sell pork.

    Also the current situation in the US is nothing like post WW2 Britain, don't try to make a comparison.
    If the person cannot afford other types of meat, they are not well off as you describe, they are likely destitute.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not talking about people like this, homeless for example. I'm talking about the person who meets your specific criteria. I'm talking about the person who is otherwise quite well off except the local store doesn't sell pork.
    Fine. I implied it by I didn't spell it out. I meant that if prices of beef and chicken rise too high, it may be that they are so poor that pork may be the only meat they can afford to get for their families.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Also the current situation in the US is nothing like post WW2 Britain, don't try to make a comparison.
    No, it isn't. But economic troubles are not spread over equally over the United States. Some areas have been hit much harder than other areas. And in such areas I think the government has the duty to intercede on behalf of those people, especially when those people's only barrier is a person's religious beliefs.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Fine. I implied it by I didn't spell it out. I meant that if prices of beef and chicken rise too high, it may be that they are so poor that pork may be the only meat they can afford to get for their families.
    No, it isn't. But economic troubles are not spread over equally over the United States. Some areas have been hit much harder than other areas. And in such areas I think the government has the duty to intercede on behalf of those people, especially when those people's only barrier is a person's religious beliefs.
    I don't disagree but I really think you're taking this hypothetical way too far, where in the this country are people suffering economic hardship solely because of someone else's religion beliefs?

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    If the business thinks it is in there best interest to not provide a service/item that other similar businesses are willing to provide or when another investor steps up to compete (providing demand for it is there) then the chips will be in the air determining whether it was a sound business decision or not. I think that markets generally will drive the demand, even in rural areas.

    Should pharmacies be required to sell that marijuana tobacco, marijuana tobacco pipes, and marijuana tobacco bongs in states that break federal law to enact their own "overriding" state law?

    Could this similar argument be made on employers needing to install winkie washers in the restrooms to prevent the people with religions that require this by washing their winkies in the sink where the rest of the employees wash their hands before they eat lunch?

    Further if your religion prevents you from doing the job that I need you to do and I have to do the job myself then I no longer need that employee.

    Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork-mban638l-jpg
    Last edited by barbarian_style; 02-18-12 at 12:45 PM.

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