View Poll Results: Can the Federal Government force a business to violate the owners religion?

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Thread: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

  1. #141
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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    That's all well and good but the false comparison was introduced to this thread to contrast the requirement that the Catholic church not be permitted to deny their employees access to normal family planning provisions in their healthcare package. In the above scenario, one Christian cult would be seeking to have their particular belief imposed upon the secular employment insurer's provision for all the cult's employees whatever the employee's beliefs or wishes.
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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    That's all well and good but the false comparison was introduced to this thread to contrast the requirement that the Catholic church not be permitted to deny their employees access to normal family planning provisions in their healthcare package. In the above scenario, one Christian cult would be seeking to have their particular belief imposed upon the secular employment insurer's provision for all the cult's employees whatever the employee's beliefs or wishes.
    Truth be told the employees would not be denied access to family planning provisions, it just would not be paid for through the employer provided health care plan
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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    That's all well and good but the false comparison was introduced to this thread to contrast the requirement that the Catholic church not be permitted to deny their employees access to normal family planning provisions in their healthcare package. In the above scenario, one Christian cult would be seeking to have their particular belief imposed upon the secular employment insurer's provision for all the cult's employees whatever the employee's beliefs or wishes.
    No one's "denied" anything.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I've brought this up in a couple of other discussions on the HHS mandate.

    Does the Federal Government have the right to force Muslim grocers to carry pork in their stores?
    No, but a grocery store that does carry pork has the right to force Muslims who work in that store to handle the packages of pork for shelf stocking and checkout.


    Now I haven't read past the OP, but I'm betting there's an ulterior meaning to this poll, so I'm just gonna jump right in. There is no legitimate correlation between a governmental edict forcing Muslims to offer pork in their stores and a governmental edict that contraceptives must be covered by health insurance so they are available to employees who want to use them.

    Now I shall read the rest of the thread and find out if I'm good at reading between the lines of human nature, or I'm so lame at it that I'm looking like a fool... and not for the first time.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Nice to see people forget about freedom of association just because they want to dump freedom of religion.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Truth be told the employees would not be denied access to family planning provisions, it just would not be paid for through the employer provided health care plan
    that is absolutely correct. to keep the model, arguing that employees should be allowed to pursue birth control (really? I mean is anyone unaware of the many venues by which one can lay ones' hands on condoms?) separately if they wish to use it is no different from arguing that shoppers should be allowed to purchase pork from someone willing to sell it to them; rather than forcing catholics to provide birth control or muslims to provide pork.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    No, but a grocery store that does carry pork has the right to force Muslims who work in that store to handle the packages of pork for shelf stocking and checkout.
    that is true. those are the conditions for the job - and you should have known that when you took it. if pork is added later on, then a smart employer would try to find a way around his employees preexisting issues... but he is not required to.

    Now I haven't read past the OP, but I'm betting there's an ulterior meaning to this poll, so I'm just gonna jump right in. There is no legitimate correlation between a governmental edict forcing Muslims to offer pork in their stores and a governmental edict that contraceptives must be covered by health insurance so they are available to employees who want to use them
    ah. so Muslims must not be forced to violate their faith... but Catholics can be.

    Now I shall read the rest of the thread and find out if I'm good at reading between the lines of human nature, or I'm so lame at it that I'm looking like a fool... and not for the first time.
    no, you called it - as I mentioned in OP: this is to highlight the issue at question in a light separate from the contentious issue of birthcontrol/abortion/etc.

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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I've brought this up in a couple of other discussions on the HHS mandate.

    Does the Federal Government have the right to force Muslim grocers to carry pork in their stores?
    No- they absolutely do not have the right to do that.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Well it depends.

    But if I live in an isolated area in which I don't have much opportunity of store selection and the only convenient store is owned by a Muslim who refuses to sell pork even when beef and chicken prices has risen so high I can't afford to buy them and I'm allergic to seafood, then I don't see why my health should suffer because of someone else's religious views are limiting my choice.

    And, if that's the case, I'm sure as hell going to vote to get rid of that limitation some how.
    Do it the old-fashioned way. Procure you own food.
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    Re: Force Muslim Grocers to Carry Pork

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is absolutely correct. to keep the model, arguing that employees should be allowed to pursue birth control (really? I mean is anyone unaware of the many venues by which one can lay ones' hands on condoms?) separately if they wish to use it is no different from arguing that shoppers should be allowed to purchase pork from someone willing to sell it to them; rather than forcing catholics to provide birth control or muslims to provide pork.
    What comes down to

    If the government mandates employer provided health care, and i am sure that some states have in the past for employers of a certain size, should certain medical services be mandated as well. Can the employer refuse to cover heart transplants or other organ transplants, what of insulin medication.

    Personally I dont think birth control, or erectile disfunction medication should be forced on an employer (if I recall correctly GM was the largest purchaser of Viagra for many years in the 2000s)
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