View Poll Results: Are you for or against gay rights?

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Thread: Opinions on Homosexuality

  1. #81
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Or how about they stop acting like ****ing freaks in the middle of the street, in the middle of the day, when decent people and their children can see them? Remember when people used to care about that?
    As was stated by Kali heterosexuals do those things also. Why do you express a double standard in your rant?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    First of all, there is no such thing as gay rights, so I didnt vote in the poll. There are only individual rights that apply to each person equally. Among the rights you have is to associate with whomever you choose and engage in whatever living arrangements and sexual practices you wish with the only caveat being that they be between consenting adults. The issue isnt do you have the right to marry, it is must the state recognize any contractual arrangement as a marriage? And who decides? This doesnt strike me as an issue for judges to determine, but for the public to determine. Should marriage be between one man and one woman? Why not two men? Why not two men and one woman? Why not brother and sister? Father and son? That none of those groups can be rightly denied the freedom to choose to live in such arrangements is, or should be, beyond question. That society must recognize each of those arrangements as a marriage is another matter. And I believe it is one of those societal things that should be decided by popular vote.
    It isn't that no one should be denied a right to a certain contract (since we are talking about marriage, which is a legal contract), but rather the reason for denying a person a right to enter into a contract with another who could legally enter into the same contract with someone else if not for x characteristic. The limitation must be based on some state interest and related to furthering that state interest in its application in order to pass Constitutional muster.

    I already went into multiple partners in a marriage or a person being involved in multiple contracts at one time and why there is a reasonable argument of how such a limitation can stand up to Constitutional scrutiny.

    As for too-close-relation marriages (siblings or parent/child), it is for the most part unnecessary due to blood relations already having many of the rights that marriage sets up and becomes contrary to the goal of encouraging stable relationships since a purely platonic relationship between relatives is likely not going to last the entire life because people, for the most part, are very likely to find a person they are not related that they would much rather be married to and legally have as their closest relative.

    And I realize you didn't mention it, but neither children nor animals can legally sign most contracts/legal paperwork. So, if they are unable to legally take responsibility for themselves, then why should we allow them to take on some similar legal responsibilities for another adult?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #83
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Marriage is not about sex. Why is this such a hard concept for people to accept?

    Legal marriage is about making two adults legally each other's closest relative. This comes with responsibilities, as well as rights and benefits because the government wants to encourage stable relationships since they have been shown to greatly benefit society as a whole. Plus, the government wants to try to protect adults who are in relationships of a certain type, particularly when each play different roles economically in what they provide to the relationship, when such relationships end poorly.
    Small corrections.

    1. It only comes with benefits. Any thing called a right that is included behaves in the exact same manner as the benefits so therefore they are all benefits.

    2. They provide these benefits to the relationships they do because they personally approve of those relationships with the idea these relationships are the best for the society. The stable relationships factor is just connected to the former.

    There really IS no real good reason the government should be involved in marriage, sorry.
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-25-12 at 07:59 PM.

  4. #84
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    This dead horse has been cremated and made into fabulous nail polish. My thoughts? I think it's a sin. Before you rage, the Bible states to hate the sin and not the sinner. I have a gay male cousin and a bisexual female cousin; oddly, they don't storm and rage against me for my opinion. As for gay marriage I've been against it for quite a while, but now I no longer oppose it 'cause we're not a theocracy. What really pisses me off is when people call me a hateful bigot in that nasally socially-liberal voice simply for thinking it's a sin. Those are the people that need a lesson in logic. According to Traditional Christianity, if it's as sinful as the Bible says, we're gonna be screwed in the afterlife; all this modern social views aren't a part of the "straight and narrow path" to heaven, IMO. Oh yeah, and I like Elton John's older music, lol.
    I have no problem with a person thinking homosexuality is a sin. It's when they take that religious opinion and express it to prevent gays and lesbians from having the same rights as everyone else that pisses me off. You seem to have it correct when you say the US is not a theocracy and religion should not be the rule of the land.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why should the states have that right when it directly inhibits the rights of certain citizens. They should be able to define marriage in a way that treats everyone the same. Legalized bigotry should not be tolerated.
    States issue the marriage licenses. Marriage is defined by society. It's only your opinion that homosexual marriages are an innate US right. It's the state's right to define marriage and many states have legally done so through referendums presented to voters.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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  6. #86
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I agree whole heartedly with this post.

    I would just like to say that while marriage is not about sex...marriage does lead to sex. There is a difference.
    True. And certainly most healthy marriages do involve healthy sexual relations. But sex is in no way an absolute necessity in marriage.

    It becomes hard to explain because people having sex seems to be what people focus on when it comes to marriage, but then again some restrictions are necessary due to the fact that most marriages do involve sex and sexual relationships between certain people are almost always unhealthy/abusive relationships.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #87
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I think the only 'right' I do not support gays on is marriage, otherwise I'm completely on their side. Born-homosexuality is a naturally reoccurring birth defect like any other. Chosen-homosexuality is very often a sex-related stress disorder. That's how I interpret the data and digest the conversations we have here. They do. Today, gays enjoy full and complete access to free association. I have no problem with that. I don't necessarily, but would encourage every couple of every kind to work on deeper issues of faith, finance and living. Love is not enough. That would depend on the preference. Without 'going there' I'm sure you and I would agree that certain preferences are off the table regardless. My family didn't approve of my wife, and her family of me, so gays aren't alone here. You know all these uber-religious folks who go around saying gays are going to hell for being gay? Those same people tell me, personally, that I'm also going to hell for supporting gays in the military, gay adoption, and for just not worshiping exactly like they do in their church. So I don't think my views would change very much. Heteros can't get married to the same-sex, so gay marriage shouldn't even be on the 'equality' table. Also, the 50% divorce rate isn't something you want to join.
    The bold: They can marry the person they think they love though. That makes it an equality issue.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  8. #88
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    States issue the marriage licenses. Marriage is defined by society. It's only your opinion that homosexual marriages are an innate US right. It's the state's right to define marriage and many states have legally done so through referendums presented to voters.
    States do not have an ultimate right to define marriage as whatever they want. They must abide by the Constitution and cannot discriminate without showing how such discrimination meets a legitimate state interest and relates, somehow, to that state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #89
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    States do not have an ultimate right to define marriage as whatever they want. They must abide by the Constitution and cannot discriminate without showing how such discrimination meets a legitimate state interest and relates, somehow, to that state interest.
    Yes, but the US Constitution doesn't protect homosexuals as a class equal to race, religion, etc. It's perfectly legal under the constitution for a state to say that marriage is between one man and one woman, just as it's perfectly fine for them to include same sex relationships in that definition.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  10. #90
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    Re: Opinions on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Small corrections.

    1. It only comes with benefits. Any thing called a right that is included behaves in the exact same manner as the benefits so therefore they are all benefits.

    2. They provide these benefits to the relationships they do because they personally approve of those relationships with the idea these relationships are the best for the society. The stable relationships factor is just connected to the former.

    There really IS no real good reason the government should be involved in marriage, sorry.
    No. There have been plenty of studies that show that the government has a good reason to be involved in at least some restrictions on marriage and certainly in at least keeping track of who is married. Plus, as long as the government gives certain rights/benefits to blood relations, then they should be involved in marriage to ensure that a person's choice of their closest relative becomes more important than blood relation. The most efficient way of doing this is with a legal marriage contract.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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