View Poll Results: Which One Trumps The Other

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  • Freedom

    23 79.31%
  • Fairness

    5 17.24%
  • Uniformity

    1 3.45%
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Thread: Freedom Or Fairness

  1. #21
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    our government is not fair and it tries to eliminate our freedoms and all priciples of our republic.

    or can you love somebody whom you dont trust and can you feel free with him ?
    I do not think you are correct in that our government "tries to eliminate our freedoms and all principles". That is why we have the Supreme Court to insure that our principles and freedoms are preserved. Love its not a requirement. Nevertheless, to answer your question....No I could not love someone I did not trust or feel free. However, I could coexist with that person, society or government.

  2. #22
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I don't get it, and I don't think anyone else does either.
    Only a few will "get it" and they will provide the appropriate knee jerk response and vote for FREEDOM - whatever the hell that is beyond one rather vague word.

    This is a kool-aid test.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #23
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Choose which ye shall serve.
    Freedom, but there's a staunch exception to the rule.

    Classic liberalism is NOT libertinism. Modern liberalism seems to have gotten out of hand and confused the two. Freedom of speech is a perfect example. We now live in a world where fraud, intimidation, and duress are completely excusable, and charging someone with any of the above requires a massive appeal to authority, popularity, and emotion where only elites can really make a case.

    The rule of law in this country seems to be on the verge of anarchy... or fascism. Take your pick on how much order you see around.

    Nobody seems to understand how duty of care is an idealist, not a pragmatist, notion anymore.
    Last edited by Daktoria; 02-12-12 at 04:15 PM.

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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Only a few will "get it" and they will provide the appropriate knee jerk response and vote for FREEDOM - whatever the hell that is beyond one rather vague word.

    This is a kool-aid test.
    Yeah, I already knew when I saw the thread that the "right" answer was "Freedom".

  5. #25
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    False dichotomy.
    One liners like this really need to be banned.

    If you want to have a constructive discussion, explain yourself. Otherwise, you're just making noise.

  6. #26
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    I do not think you are correct in that our government "tries to eliminate our freedoms and all principles". That is why we have the Supreme Court to insure that our principles and freedoms are preserved. Love its not a requirement. Nevertheless, to answer your question....No I could not love someone I did not trust or feel free. However, I could coexist with that person, society or government.
    no i am talking about our own goverment

    yes if you really trust somebody and if he trusts you too ,you can feel free and love each other ,so you first need a little fairness..

  7. #27
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This could be interesting. Its possible we're about to see a perfect example of partisanship and division, and this will be an especially pure division because the original question has so many possible meanings. I wonder if people are going to start dividing into two camps, where one argues for one definition of the words and another argues for a different definition. For example, one camp could argue fairness means fairness under the law while another could argue that fairness means something more like communism where everyone's lives are equal.

    My opinion is that as it stands now, the question is so vague its meaningless. What exactly the OP means by each of his choices is anyone's guess. So we are going to apply our own definitions to those words and argue as if that's the real meaning, OR we are going to see someone who we don't like or has an opposing political lean and argue against whatever they say because we know we disagree with them by default.

    Going to be interesting. So far we got MarineTpartier, throwing the first blow, I wonder if other self described conservatives will follow his lead naturally. And I wonder if self described liberals, or at least those who disagree with conservatives, will follow the idea that its a False dichotomy because its the natural opposing position.
    I don't really buy this being a conservative-liberal division between freedom and fairness. Economically speaking, "conservatives" prefer freedom and "liberals" prefer fairness. Socially speaking though, "conservatives" prefer fairness, and "liberals" prefer freedom.

    There's a reason the poll included "uniformity", and it's very clear why "liberals" in this thread aren't paying attention to it.

  8. #28
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    no i am talking about our own goverment
    I understand that. I need to coexist with that government, love is optional, I feel free; I have experienced a great life of achievement and have been happy in my pursuit thereof.

    yes if you really trust somebody and if he trusts you too ,you can feel free and love each other ,so you first need a little fairness..
    Fairness is what the parties to the relationship determine. Fairness is about compromise therefore there can never be total freedom for all parties.

  9. #29
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Choose which ye shall serve.
    The ultimate unfairness is someone else in control of your life. Therefore, freedom = fairness, and there is no either/or choice.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #30
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    Re: Freedom Or Fairness

    I see Freedom, Fairness and Uniformity all acting together, not separate from each other. I see the three concepts operatating as one.

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