View Poll Results: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

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    16 38.10%
  • No

    23 54.76%
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Thread: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Syringes are not illegal. They are not hard to aquire. You can order them on the internet. Pick them up at Walgreens. Many places like Farm and Fleet have them on the shelfs.

    No, the addictions and how that affects a person is the problem, not a lack of being able to get clean needles.
    the laws vary by state, and even where they are available for purchase without an Rx there may be hoops to jump through to discourage purchase for illegitimate use, such as pharmacies requiring ID, or the purchaser to sign a register. The HIV issue has gav impetus to many states loosening the regulations, but there are still hoops to jump through - so the availability is still limited.

    IOH - State Prescription Laws for Syringes and Insulin
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    the laws vary by state, and even where they are available for purchase without an Rx there may be hoops to jump through to discourage purchase for illegitimate use, such as pharmacies requiring ID, or the purchaser to sign a register. The HIV issue has gav impetus to many states loosening the regulations, but there are still hoops to jump through - so the availability is still limited.

    IOH - State Prescription Laws for Syringes and Insulin
    Put them on the shelves of all Wal Marts. Is that not a better option than saying that taxpayers should be buying them? Why isn't the arguement one of making them easy to aquire as opposed to making taxpayers pay for them?

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    It's a tough pill to swallow.

    Obviously it costs epic $$$ for law enforcement/etc, and on the other hand if most/all drugs are decriminalized, and this needle program ends, many more lives will be destroyed. Iirc, that means increased taxes.

    Foolish people will always find means to destroy themselves.

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Put them on the shelves of all Wal Marts. Is that not a better option than saying that taxpayers should be buying them? Why isn't the arguement one of making them easy to aquire as opposed to making taxpayers pay for them?
    a few reasons.. the in your face availability would cause an uproar for one, certain segments of the population would likely be very vocal and up in arms just because of the perception issue of it.

    Also, while I agree with the concept of you reap what you sow, the issue of the risk to public health extends beyond the user and outweighs the cost of a few needles for a small segment of our population.

    If it were solely a drug user infecting themselves, so be it, that is on them - however there is no way that we can insure that they do not spread the disease to others - users will have sex with nonusers, and otherwise innocent people who were unfortunate enough to make a poor choice of who they slept with will then become a potential tax burden as a result.

    It boils down to a simple concept.. harm reduction.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    a few reasons.. the in your face availability would cause an uproar for one, certain segments of the population would likely be very vocal and up in arms just because of the perception issue of it.
    Because there has been no uproar over this program? As I pointed out already, in most places syringes are already sold on the shelves of drug stores. Where is the uproar? Were you even aware that they were sold this way? Sorry, this arguement holds no water.

    Also, while I agree with the concept of you reap what you sow, the issue of the risk to public health extends beyond the user and outweighs the cost of a few needles for a small segment of our population.
    I'm willling to make them cheap and easy to get. Your arguement is that users still won't buy them. So can we end the arguement that we are giving them away because they are hard to aquire?

    If it were solely a drug user infecting themselves, so be it, that is on them - however there is no way that we can insure that they do not spread the disease to others - users will have sex with nonusers, and otherwise innocent people who were unfortunate enough to make a poor choice of who they slept with will then become a potential tax burden as a result.
    We have a program that makes needles free. Are people still using dirty needles and getting infected? (rhetorical question as we all know they are) So since I do not need an answer as I already have it, if yor concern is ending the disease spread, you address the root cause.

    It boils down to a simple concept.. harm reduction.
    So your arguement is for a band aid to cover a sliced major artery.

  6. #46
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Portugal is a tiny country with a different culture and people. We can't compare a tiny country with a nation of 300 million + with more diversity.
    But on what foundations can you legitimately argue this? What makes you think culture, people and population would make such drug legalization and control a failure? Surely the logical thing to do when a current model fails is to try a different model as opposed to promoting the continuation of the current model in a more extreme direction?

    We need to crack down on drug sellers and imports.
    What do you think every government since the declaration of war on drugs has been doing? In fact statistics would show you that the more money and the more controls the federal government introduces the higher the value becomes for these commodities for crime syndicates to sell and the more drug use and addiction that takes place.

    Like I said, we also need to be more rehab based instead of criminal corrective based with drug abuses. Make them pay hefty fines or work labor if they can't afford them while forcing them into a rehab program.
    So your suggesting that the government finds more money to correct a problem it itself is increasingly aggravating? Baring in mind the huge failure of rehabilitation programs and the fact that legal action has had no observable affect on the demand or supply of drugs, what makes you think hard labor would be the solution?
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  7. #47
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Public health is much more important than punishing people for not listening to (some of) us when (some of) us decided to make drugs illegal.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Because there has been no uproar over this program? As I pointed out already, in most places syringes are already sold on the shelves of drug stores. Where is the uproar? Were you even aware that they were sold this way? Sorry, this arguement holds no water.
    Needle exchanges are for the most part out of the public eye, and there is relatively little public outcry about it (sure it is an issue for some, but it is not a high profile issue). Put needles on shelves where kids and teenagers can see them or <gasp> get their hands on them and there will most likely be a much larger uproar, and it will be a high profile issue.

    While I do not personally have a problem with them being on the shelves on walmart I cannot speak for the entire populace and there will be a very vocal minority that would make this very difficult to implement.. heck we still have tobacco products kept behind the counter and you think it will be an easy sell to get needles on the shelves?

    This is not an argument against the concept that i am proffering here, but rather an argument about the politics, public perception, and ability to implement this. I do not see it happening, and I do not think that it is feasible to expect to be able to sell this concept at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm willling to make them cheap and easy to get. Your arguement is that users still won't buy them. So can we end the arguement that we are giving them away because they are hard to aquire?
    I did not put that forth as the sole reason. I just feel that making them more available will assuage the matter some, of course there will still be those who will not buy them - but if removing the hurdles results in a few more people using clean needles, then we have reduced the harm and the risk. We are not talking about eliminating risk - that is a fools errand -, but rather reducing it.



    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    We have a program that makes needles free. Are people still using dirty needles and getting infected? (rhetorical question as we all know they are) So since I do not need an answer as I already have it, if yor concern is ending the disease spread, you address the root cause.
    Again black and white thinking.. it is stupidity to expect to eliminate these behaviors or eliminating these risks, but it is pract6ical to take steps that can reduce them.




    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    So your arguement is for a band aid to cover a sliced major artery.
    harm reduction.. to use your analogy If an artery was severed you would put a tourniquet on to staunch the bleeding... heck you do anything and everything you can to staunch the flow, even if it is not perfect, it slows it down. Any improvement is - at risk of being redundant - an IMPROVEMENT.
    Last edited by marduc; 02-11-12 at 02:03 PM.
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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Public health is much more important than punishing people for not listening to (some of) us when (some of) us decided to make drugs illegal.
    Yes, and band aids do little for public health.

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    Re: Do you support the end of the syringe-exchange program?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Needle exchanges are for the most part out of the public eye, and there is relatively little public outcry about it (sure it is an issue for some, but it is not a high profile issue). Put needles on shelves where kids and teenagers can see them or <gasp> get their hands on them and there will most likely be a much larger uproar, and it will be a high profile issue.
    Because we would put them in the toy aisle? Look, I'm willing to discuss this but not like this. We already have syringes on shelves where kids can see them if they are in line with mom picking up a presciption. Where is the outrage?

    While I do not personally have a problem with them being on the shelves on walmart I cannot speak for the entire populace and there will be a very vocal minority that would make this very difficult to implement.. heck we still have tobacco products kept behind the counter and you think it will be an easy sell to get needles on the shelves?
    It's already implemented. Where is the outrage?

    This is not an argument against the concept that i am proffering here, but rather an argument about the politics, public perception, and ability to implement this. I do not see it happening, and I do not think that it is feasible to expect to be able to sell this concept at all.
    It's already implemented in most areas. I imagine I'll still have to note this over and over though.

    I did not put that forth as the sole reason. I just feel that making them more available will assuage the matter some, of course there will still be those who will not buy them - but if removing the hurdles results in a few more people using clean needles, then we have reduced the harm and the risk. We are not talking about eliminating risk - that is a fools errand -, but rather reducing it.
    The fools errand is addressing the symptoms and not the disease.

    Again black and white thinking.. it is stupidity to expect to eliminate these behaviors or eliminating these risks, but it is pract6ical to take steps that can reduce them.
    I stated a solution that would reduce use in my very first post.

    harm reduction.. to use your analogy If an artery was severed you would put a tourniquet on to staunch the bleeding... heck you do anything and everything you can to staunch the flow, even if it is not perfect, it slows it down. Any improvement is - at risk of being redundant - an IMPROVEMENT.
    No, the arguement should be in addressing the harm the disease causes. You are argueing to address the issue of cancer by giving those with cancer something to alleviate their pain as oppossed to a cure for cancer.

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