View Poll Results: Is Trickle Down a Plutocratic religion or an Economic Theory

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  • Trickle Down is sound economics

    4 13.79%
  • Trickle Down is a fraud

    24 82.76%
  • Trickle Down kills USA jobs

    7 24.14%
  • Trickle Down makes USA jobs

    3 10.34%
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Thread: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Actually....Bush passed TARP and I considered it the one of the best actions of his Presidency. I was working at a brokerage firm when it happened...I remember the first time it failed and markets took a nose dive and people were panicky. When it passed markets rebounded (a bit) and there was a lot more confidence in the markets and financial institutions.

    TARP and the bailouts arent' partisan hackary...it's doing what needs to be done...pragmatism...understanding economic realities.

    A whole economic policy based on the idea that wealth going to the top raises all boats is a completely different thing.
    "Boats sold separately. Supplies are limited. Not all will qualify."
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  2. #22
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    ....
    If instead of these last 2 miserable Presidents we had/have, both of whom are only interested in stimulating the rich, they had simply sent every tax paying American a $10,000.00 Visa card with a 6 month expiration date, we would be booming again. Instead, we have given multi-million dollar bonuses to the creepy criminals in the banking, weapons and mercenary industries.
    If you made Obama the King he wouldn't go near as far as you recommend, but a lot further than he was allowed. Why is all, or just, the Presidents fault if the other branches of government we elected don't go along, but rather just make any real solution impossible.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    "Trickle Down" Is a Plutocratic Religion, Not an Economic Theory | Buzz Flash.org


    Trickle Down" Is a Plutocratic Religion, Not an Economic Theory
    "The economists and pundits are legion who have challenged the notion that the amassing of wealth by a privileged few results in more jobs being created in the US. After all, if this were the case - at a time the richer are becoming even richer - why did we nearly just reach a depression?"

    Is the article correct?
    Does "Trickle Down" kill USA jobs?
    Is it an economic theory?
    LOL!

    False premise. The rich are not richer. Does Mr. Buffett have more wealth today or a few years ago? Does Mr. Gates have more wealth today or a few years ago?



    I understand what you are trying to do but it would help if you did your homework first then stated the question correctly.

    But nice try
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    "Boats sold separately. Supplies are limited. Not all will qualify."
    I think "those that start off with bigger boats rise the fastest and highest".
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Trickle Down has been downright disastrous:

    I have quite a few links, here is one I read the other day:

    We’re More Unequal Than You Think by Andrew Hacker | The New York Review of Books

    Poverty rates:

    "Another 2.6 million people slipped into poverty in the United States last year, the Census Bureau reported Tuesday, and the number of Americans living below the official poverty line, 46.2 million people, was the highest number in the 52 years the bureau has been publishing figures on it. "

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/us...pagewanted=all

    Income Inequality:

    "Since 1980, middle-class wages have largely stagnated and lower-class wages have declined, while the upper echelons of American society have seen a windfall. A study by University of California, Berkeley professor Emmanuel Saez found that, as of 2007, the top decile of American earners pulled in 49.7 percent of total wages, a level that's "higher than any other year since 1917.""

    15 Facts About U.S. Income Inequality That Everyone Should Know (CHARTS)

    Wages average an increase of .1% growth

    "The income story in America is deeply troubling. Inflation-adjusted average hourly earnings for production and nonsupervisory workers (a category that encompasses 80% of the workforce and leaves out higher-paid managers and supervisors) rose by an anemic 0.1% a year from 1979 to 2007, according to the EPI. A potent combination of economic and social forces has conspired to keep wages down for most workers with the exception of a brief period of white-hot economic growth in 1995-2000."

    U.S. Wage Growth: The Downward Spiral - BusinessWeek
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  6. #26
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    The "theory" that I personally have knowledge of is the "trickle up" theory.

    I moved to Korea in 1963. They did not have so mach as one paved road. Millions of people lived in discarded refrigerator boxes that came from US Military homes. There were very few vehicles, the cabs were ancient Jeeps with doors that closed by wrapping a wire to secure them. The poverty was just abject.

    In 1965, I moved to Vietnam and eventually was assigned to a Korean outpost in Dong De (35 miles North of Nha Trang). Those guys were some great soldiers! They worked all day at engineering projects and at night they went on patrol. What they did with the few hours that they weren't working or being shot at, was to black market stuff they could buy at the PX. They all did it - some more than others - but all of them. These guys were from the poorest of the poor and were unable to bribe their way our of being deployed in RVN.

    They all were able to send money home to their families. Their pay was only about $200 a month but they would make hundreds more black marketing. These poor families got rtheir hands on money for the first time in their lives and they - finally - got to buy a refrigerator instead of living in the box.

    By 1968, when I returned to Korea,. the changes were apparent. They've just kept on progressing since. So, yeah, trickle up works, trickle down is just terminology for the rich pissing on the poor.
    This is a very good and thought provoking post, but I have to ask... Isn't this actually an endorsement of "trickle down"? What you describe is an example of something resembling 'free market'.... "trickle for down", I don't think, was ever meant to be a promise of wealth, but rather discernible improvement of one's lifestyle in a relative sense... and this certainly did achieve that for the people involved.

  7. #27
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Well, up to August 2011 the amount was 4.7 Trillion.

    And not to split hairs here. Bush took office with the Nation Debt at $5.6 Trillion and left office with it standing at $10.1 Trillion. Let me seeeee. That's right at $5 Trillion increase in the National Debt. Now that's a subtantial increase in the national debt.

    But what I'd not like to do here is assign blame on Bush. The poor guy just had a load of **** on his plate throughout his presidency, right?

    And as far as Obama rescuing this country from anything...our country remains in a world of ****...because of the irreponsibility and corruption of our Government over the past several decades. I BLAME THEM ALL...for our mess. Partisan blaming doesn't work for me. And I am including both sides. They're equally as corrupt and crooked.

    You wanna believe that your government HAS EVER worked in the best interest of you...or America. Fine, you can live with that delusion all you want.
    My remarks are at liberals and progressives who decry trickle down as what caused this mess, then increased it 4fold and praise Obama for it. Not that I believe in any of it in its entirety. The same could be said of the partisan hackery from the right, which I equally despise. Reagan or any of the other GOP debt is acceptable and Obama's isn't.

    Having said that, my belief is that debt in of itself is not a complete evil. Its in how it is spent which makes the difference. (along with amount). There was good and bad with Reaganomics. The intent was right, the direction was correct, the amount was too high. We shouldn't have gone as far into debt as we did. There was still way too many loose ends. Bush and Clinton were roughly keeping the same pace. Yes, for a few brief years we balanced the books, sorta. GW Bush comes along and has a whole new book thrown at him. Not that he read it correctly or interpreted it correctly. The longer his presidency went on, the worse the spending got, and the less relevance the debt had as to what it was being spent on. By the end, TARP was only putting us farther into debt without it helping anything at all. Hurting us more is what I believe personally.

    Along comes Obama and continues the end of the Bush presidency, the one that the libs carry on about as to how and why Obama is facing such a daunting task of a wrecked ecomony. So, obviously, the answer to re righting the economy is not to add 4x the amount of what got us into trouble in the 1st place. Not only are we going 180 degrees in the wrong direction, we just hit the throttle to max in the process. Buying time from a collapse while making it 4x more difficult to get out of what will, if left without correction into true economic disaster is NOT saving the economy or the country.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    The question is rather, what is trickle down economic? Trickle down economics is that tax breaks or better business environment while benefit the society as a whole.

    However what it does not say is that these benefits outweigh the costs of reducing government spending or running deficits.

    I don't think it is trickle down economics that has failed, but they have run under a false flag. To increase spending, reduce taxes for everyone, give handouts to certain companies, and raise taxes for others is not trickle down economics. It is populist crony capitalism.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    My opinion is that trickle-down is not a fair basis for an economy to be successful. Certainly, there is nothing wrong with the rich trickling down but to achieve a more egalitarian society, trickle-up is far more important.

    Naturally, there are some who will gain more than others. It's not wrong to be rich. However, when wealth is too concentrated, the consequences are negative. Returning to the Korean economic miracle, when these poor families began to buy appliances and cars, certainly the business owners became rich. This was the basis for the growth of the Korean manufacturing industry. Before that, there were a few rich politicians and bankers. They got even richer as they made and sold their products. So they could then employ more ordinary people.

    What I see happening in America, is that wealth is gathering in the hands of very few, like, say, the politicians, bankers and their cohorts. Most of these people don't manufacture anything useful and don't contribute to our society. I have no objection to these few people getting more and more but I don't feel that we should prioritize giving them tax breaks or other special considerations.



    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    This is a very good and thought provoking post, but I have to ask... Isn't this actually an endorsement of "trickle down"? What you describe is an example of something resembling 'free market'.... "trickle for down", I don't think, was ever meant to be a promise of wealth, but rather discernible improvement of one's lifestyle in a relative sense... and this certainly did achieve that for the people involved.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Trickle Down" a Plutocratic Religion, or an Economic Theory

    I don't understand why they coin these catchall phrases like "trickle down' with negative connotations. In a capitalistic economy there's always going to be a cycle of money upwards then back down. There's nothing inherently wrong with that if the top doesn't use it's influence to prevent fair business practices. Which of course they never ever would do or at least get caught. Supposedly the masses are able to counter any kind of power peddling with sheer numbers.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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