View Poll Results: How Would You Vote?

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  • Without money, people have no hope.

    22 57.89%
  • Without hope of social justice, money has no use.

    14 36.84%
  • I have no idea but I think this is exactly what I'll have to decide.

    2 5.26%
  • I don't vote.

    0 0%
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Thread: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

  1. #61
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Let's say you are (as I am) a fervent supporter of gay rights. You study on the candidates and conclude that while Candidate A will frustrate your social justice goals, he or she will bring the economy back into balance.

    Which way will you vote? Economic justice or social justice?

    Since I am opposed to gay marriage I would not vote for a candidate who supports gay marriage regardless of what campaign promises they made to fix the economy. I have a hard time believing the campaign promises of anyone.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #62
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    There are crimes and sins of commission and ones of omission, Viktyr. We are as guilty of the things we know are wrong that we allow to go on around us as we are of those things that we do ourselves.
    I don't believe this to be the case at all. Personal responsibility is just that- responsibility for oneself. I don't believe for a second that (1) I am in the position to allow anyone to do anything, and (2) that I am responsible for the actions of others.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  3. #63
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    There are crimes and sins of commission and ones of omission, Viktyr. We are as guilty of the things we know are wrong that we allow to go on around us as we are of those things that we do ourselves.



    If it becomes legal nationally, I will no longer be able to reside in the United States. It's that simple.
    It must be difficult for you to travel, having to avoid all those SSM states.

  4. #64
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    There are crimes and sins of commission and ones of omission, Viktyr. We are as guilty of the things we know are wrong that we allow to go on around us as we are of those things that we do ourselves.
    We are responsible for the world we live in, but we are only guilty of the things we could have changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    If it becomes legal nationally, I will no longer be able to reside in the United States. It's that simple.
    I understand. I've drawn several of those lines myself. It just strikes me as remarkably petty and intolerant to draw such a line over an issue that does not prevent you from acting morally-- gay marriage doesn't interfere with your marriage and your family, so it seems that you should be perfectly capable of staying in the country and fighting (by lawful means) for the repeal of laws you consider immoral.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It must be difficult for you to travel, having to avoid all those SSM states.
    There's only six of them so far. I've got states I can't drive through, either; it isn't that hard if you take your moral values seriously enough.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 02-08-12 at 01:31 AM.

  5. #65
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    There's only six of them so far. I've got states I can't drive through, either; it isn't that hard if you take your moral values seriously enough.
    That was addressed to Tigger, "Location: New England". I believe only Maine and Rhode Island are left as non-SSM states.

  6. #66
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I don't believe this to be the case at all. Personal responsibility is just that- responsibility for oneself. I don't believe for a second that (1) I am in the position to allow anyone to do anything, and (2) that I am responsible for the actions of others.
    When you continue to allow for the election of people who cannot or will not act and legislate in a moral manner, you are responsible for their actions and legislation. When you fail to call the cops every time you see a drug deal going down or other crime being committed, you become responsible for those actions. I could go on, but I won't waste either of our time.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It must be difficult for you to travel, having to avoid all those SSM states.
    Unfortunately I live in one, though thankfully in an area of the Communistwealth where it is not terribly prevailant. I do go out of my way to try and avoid places where morality and values are not strongly enforced; but in this area of the country it's not very easy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    We are responsible for the world we live in, but we are only guilty of the things we could have changed.
    Only true to a certain degree Viktyr. We're guilty of not changing a lot of things that we should, because doing so would not be easy, pretty, or polite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    I understand. I've drawn several of those lines myself. It just strikes me as remarkably petty and intolerant to draw such a line over an issue that does not prevent you from acting morally-- gay marriage doesn't interfere with your marriage and your family, so it seems that you should be perfectly capable of staying in the country and fighting (by lawful means) for the repeal of laws you consider immoral.
    Well, I can be a very petty and intolerant guy. When the State of New York imposed their Same Sex Marriage Right last year, I canceled a trip that would probably have put $500-600 in the pocket of their hotel and restaurant industry, nevermind the secondary markets. I actually sent a letter to the heads of their legislative bodies informing them of the reason I was canceling my stay. Instead I drove out for the one day I needed to be there and drove back that night (about an 18-20 hour day overall) instead of going out a couple days early and staying at least one day later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    There's only six of them so far. I've got states I can't drive through, either; it isn't that hard if you take your moral values seriously enough.
    I've got more than a few which I can't drive through for LEGAL reasons, nevermind the morals and values issues.

  7. #67
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That was addressed to Tigger, "Location: New England". I believe only Maine and Rhode Island are left as non-SSM states.
    Yep, and that's why I'm working on getting the hell out of here ASAP.

  8. #68
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Let's say you are (as I am) a fervent supporter of gay rights. You study on the candidates and conclude that while Candidate A will frustrate your social justice goals, he or she will bring the economy back into balance.

    Which way will you vote? Economic justice or social justice?
    Without equal rights for all, a nations economy will suffer, IMO.
    The wealthy may not even feel this inequality and may not even care, but in today's Internet age, this cannot last.
    We need to stress rights for all, not just homosexuals.
    And, again, no vote, strange options...
    Last edited by earthworm; 02-08-12 at 08:51 AM.

  9. #69
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Since I am opposed to gay marriage I would not vote for a candidate who supports gay marriage regardless of what campaign promises they made to fix the economy. I have a hard time believing the campaign promises of anyone.
    Campaign "promises" = pandering to stupid/hateful voters.
    I'm not happy with so-called "gay" marriage; but ones rights are much more important.
    Thankfully I am (more or less normal); but, if we really do have a "great society", then individual rights must be respected...
    And, I have no respect for those who think that people who are less fortunate should have their opportunities limited by some religious nut case..
    I find this thinking to be despicable !

  10. #70
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    Re: Would You Vote Against Your Conscience For A Better Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I would vote for the economic guys. The gay marriage thing is, at this point, pretty much going to be legal everywhere in the next 10-15 years anyway, given current momentum.
    Thanks for turning this thread into another SSM thread.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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