Taxes: Whose money is it?

Taxes: Whose money is it?

Several recent threads are prompting this question, but primarily the current thread about food stamps and welfare money and when/where recipients should be allowed to spend/access the money. Also, as I float around here on DP I see many different takes regarding the administration of tax money. Who should control it, who should have a say and to what degree, who "owns" it, and so on. Depending on the topic of the day, I see a lot on inconsistency regarding the source of revenue. Quite often, a person's opinion seems to vary depending on how emotional that particular issue is to them.

Before anybody thinks that I am covertly calling them out, I am not. I am guilty of this, too, and am aware of it. But, after watching and interacting with others I am being more self-reflective and wondering if more consistency is in order.

Tax money... AFTER it has left your possession and is in the government's possession... is it...

1) Still *your* money, individually? To the point that you should have a direct say in its handling that allows you to put conditions on its use?
2) Your money, but in a collective societal sense?
3) No longer, technically, your/our money money, but the government's money. We no longer have a direct say, and should only be limited to what our elected representatives do. (I'm sure the government votes for this one, but what they think is another topic)
4) Other?

Another side question: Should our individual positions be consistent, or vary subjectively based on a given topic (i.e.: military, welfare, education, etc.)?

Tax money belongs to the community that levied the tax. The public exercises their control over the money by electing officials to manage it according to their wishes. The government is not some separate entity, but an extension of the peoples will. Its easy to blame politicians, but remember they only have power because the public is stupid and apathetic enough to let them get elected. The blessing and curse of representative democracy is that you get the government you deserve.

rathi said:

Tax money belongs to the community that levied the tax. The public exercises their control over the money by electing officials to manage it according to their wishes. The government is not some separate entity, but an extension of the peoples will. Its easy to blame politicians, but remember they only have power because the public is stupid and apathetic enough to let them get elected. The blessing and curse of representative democracy is that you get the government you deserve.

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Maybe at the local level, but at the National level money seems to generate our candidates. Joe 'Sixpack ain't gonna get on the ballot.

DaveFagan said:

Maybe at the local level, but at the National level money seems to generate our candidates. Joe 'Sixpack ain't gonna get on the ballot.

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True. Seems a shame, but I don't know what can be done about it.

"My money in a collective sense," meaning, basically, "our money". We need to have a government to maintain a civil society. That requires funds for us to have our civilization. We pay into it. Once we all pitch into the pot, it's "our" money, and we elect representatives from amongst us to administer that money on our behalf. Some people seem to forget that they aren't a lone individual in a mountain-side forest living on their own. They're a part of a civilized society, and that requires a certain amount of infrastructure, which all costs money, and we all have to pay into it.

Money has to be earned before it can be looted.

radcen said:

Taxes: Whose money is it?

Several recent threads are prompting this question, but primarily the current thread about food stamps and welfare money and when/where recipients should be allowed to spend/access the money. Also, as I float around here on DP I see many different takes regarding the administration of tax money. Who should control it, who should have a say and to what degree, who "owns" it, and so on. Depending on the topic of the day, I see a lot on inconsistency regarding the source of revenue. Quite often, a person's opinion seems to vary depending on how emotional that particular issue is to them.

Before anybody thinks that I am covertly calling them out, I am not. I am guilty of this, too, and am aware of it. But, after watching and interacting with others I am being more self-reflective and wondering if more consistency is in order.

Tax money... AFTER it has left your possession and is in the government's possession... is it...

1) Still *your* money, individually? To the point that you should have a direct say in its handling that allows you to put conditions on its use?
2) Your money, but in a collective societal sense?
3) No longer, technically, your/our money money, but the government's money. We no longer have a direct say, and should only be limited to what our elected representatives do. (I'm sure the government votes for this one, but what they think is another topic)
4) Other?

Another side question: Should our individual positions be consistent, or vary subjectively based on a given topic (i.e.: military, welfare, education, etc.)?

Click to expand...

Great question. Great poll. And i think a lot of the country's apathy with government spending is because we tend to forget the fact "it is our money".

Believe automatic "Federal and State Withholding" in our paychecks contributes to the apathy. We tend to forget/ignore all the cash that is being quietly whisked away from us to the government coffers.

Here is an idea. Give people their full gross pay in their paycheck. And then once a month everybody gets to sit down and write a check to the government for what they owe that period. Think the pattern consensus would be "WTF? You've be taking how much?? Where the hell is all this money going???!!!"

Cole said:

Great question. Great poll. And i think a lot of the country's apathy with government spending is because we tend to forget the fact "it is our money".

Believe automatic "Federal and State Withholding" in our paychecks contributes to the apathy. We tend to forget/ignore all the cash that is being quietly whisked away from us to the government coffers.

Here is an idea. Give people their full gross pay in their paycheck. And then once a month everybody gets to sit down and write a check to the government for what they owe that period. Think the pattern consensus would be "WTF? You've be taking how much?? Where the hell is all this money going???!!!"

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Why not once a year rather than every month, then you'll really feel it and really pay attention.

It's the individuals entirely, the government doesn't partake in the labor that earns my wage. The collectivists mindset seems to think that the individual is reliant on the government, when it is in fact the government who is completely dependent on the individuals productivity.

Well, this is where my conservatism is at its strongest. It's my money. The government works for me, I don't work for it. The money I pay in taxes is for the government to work for me. It should at least inderectly be for my benefit. When Trillions of dollars goes for a few failed top companies to survive and continue to waste money that they are not earning, like CEO bonuses, that is not for my benefit, and doesn't in any way help the commnity or country I live in.

Nothing pisses me off more than when we are told we have to have deep cuts in law enforcement, health care and defense and then I see the execs at fannie and freddy getting millions in bonuses and bennies. That is utter BS. Neither party is doing anything to stop it. IN fact, they are pushing through candidates that continue the practice. When I see a trillion for a health care bill, I expect my health care bill to go down, not up. I am getting hit twice, 1st by more of my tax dollars being used for health care but then again because I am paying more out of my own pocket. Then I get even more pissed because the only people that have benefitted from this POS health care bill is a few major drug companies.

It's my money that I pay for services for me. In its simplest form this is what is happening to us....

we go to a mechanic because we need new tires. The mechanic tells us that for the 200 we normally spend, rather than 4 tires now we only get 2 and they are less quality. The reason for the increase in price and decrease that we are getting is because he is taking the extra money and giving it to his wealthy friend who went to the casino, blew all his money and needs to make a mortgage payment on his million dollar mansion.

I belive the money belongs to us. Its impossible for each American to dictate where their money is to be spent, yet i dont think enough effort goes into our representatives actually making an effort to find out what their constituents actually want. We elect our officials, yes, but like someone already said, on a national level, where the most money goes, we are only givin a few bad choices based on who has risen to the top of the money pool.

Dpetty said:

I belive the money belongs to us. Its impossible for each American to dictate where their money is to be spent, yet i dont think enough effort goes into our representatives actually making an effort to find out what their constituents actually want. We elect our officials, yes, but like someone already said, on a national level, where the most money goes, we are only givin a few bad choices based on who has risen to the top of the money pool.

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Oh they know exactly what we want, and put forth all the nice sounding rhetoric and promises galore, then turn around and rip us off blind.

Once collected, it's the government's money. However, like so many others, I would like to see those tax dollars spent in meaningful ways and not squandered.

Honestly, since the government is simply an arm of the people, it's not a worthwhile question. The government is the people, therefore the money belongs to the people. If the people allow those in government to run wild, then who do we have to blame for their failures?

Lachean said:

Why not once a year rather than every month, then you'll really feel it and really pay attention.

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do it the day before election day

TurtleDude said:

do it the day before election day

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Sweet!!




...

In the end, sadly, I'm going to have to go with whoever possesses it determines how it is to be spent. It's a basic tenant of freedom. However, I would also say that we have allowed for more problems because we allow our government to spend money on anything. We need to have the government limited to spending money only for services rendered or product purchased. Then we don't have to worry about bailing out companies or welfare recipients spending their money on gambling/alcohol/whatever.

maquiscat said:

In the end, sadly, I'm going to have to go with whoever possesses it determines how it is to be spent. It's a basic tenant of freedom. However, I would also say that we have allowed for more problems because we allow our government to spend money on anything. We need to have the government limited to spending money only for services rendered or product purchased. Then we don't have to worry about bailing out companies or welfare recipients spending their money on gambling/alcohol/whatever.

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I agree. I dont think its as important who spends the money, as it is limiting them to ONLY spending the money they have. If those in charge of the pocket book were limited in their budget to only spending actual received revenue, they would be far more picky and choosy on where it was dispersed. We would lose a lot of useless programs and money pits real quick!

Once its taxed it is no longer "your" money but rather America's money (or your states money). Our means of having a say in it is our elected representitives.

It's now the government's money, to do with as they see fit at the will of the people

TheDemSocialist said:

It's now the government's money, to do with as they see fit at the will of the people

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LOL its good to see some people still believe in such silly myths

It's collectively our/America's money once it's been collected.

And like it or not we are all collectively responsible for how it's spent as well.

Lachean said:

Why not once a year rather than every month, then you'll really feel it and really pay attention.

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Some of us do that already between 1 Feb and 15 Apr each year. Total tax is right there on Form 1040 Line 60* plain as day. That doesn't include any rebates or other tax credits we often receive so, if anything what I see every year is more than I actually pay.
*(or 61, depending on year)

The people's money, but under care of the government - but it's not the politicians' money, they're merely hired stewards tasked with the job of maintaining a stable and productive society. They've gotten it backwards as of late, thinking it's their money to begin with and they're our caretakers...

Lachean said:

Money has to be earned before it can be looted.

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Yup, no credit allowed. If the government wants a road built it has to build it first with its own money before it should ask us to pay taxes for it. Actually, private companies, getting their funding from say form China, should build the road and only its users should pay for its use with tolls. Yup, this would work. Right?