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Bargain With Iran

Make the Deal?


  • Total voters
    41
Simply put, if Iran offered to end their nuclear program if we dismantled some of our nuclear weapons, would you take the offer?

We are dismantling some of our nuclear weapons now in a mutal reduction deal with Russia. Are you suggesting we reduce ours to Iran's level of zero? That would surely be the "deal" if Iran signed on. And NO...that would be idotic.
 
Wouldnt it be funny if Israel was bluffing? Or some ironic humor lets invade Israel and see if they really have any WMD. I mean just like Iraq there are stories that say that they have WMD's. :p

IS the US considering invading and occupying Israel???
 
oil is bought and sold in other currencies,but the us dollar is the main currency used.the focus with the petro dollar with iran and iraq was that after they swithced to euros,other countries would slowly fall suit and since our currency is directly related to oil,it allows us to print more money and have it still hold value because most major countries require dollars to buy oil.

and basically in switching from the gold standard to the petro dollar and debt to maintain value,the united states and most major countries started a large ponzi scheme that will fail.war with iraq and dealing with iran is nothing more than hanging on to that scheme even longer.this is also why rich people like to invest in gold,if china dumps all our debt and all countries dropped the dollar for trading,the rich would still have precious metals while everyone else would have to keep a currency thats only worth the paper its printed on.for this reason the united states has a large gold reserve just incase the dollar fails,but that gold standard wouldnt be worth as much to the country in whole as inflated printable money.


Petrodollar warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Drinking that Ron Paul kool-aid I see. But you are also wrong about the dollar, the reason we can print more is that investors snap up our Govt. bonds in any amount we want. Precious metals based currency went out with the 19th century and will never come back. You can't eat gold or run your car with it. It is inherently nearly worthless except fo r baubles. The faith in the stability of the US Govt. and its currency on the other hand is priceless. No amount of right wing bad mouthing seems to be able to change that. Doesn't that just burn you up?
 
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Simply put, if Iran offered to end their nuclear program if we dismantled some of our nuclear weapons, would you take the offer?




Nuclear weapons? Nuclear program? Nahhhh....... it's only for electricity :idea:

iran_nuclear_bomb.jpg
 
Nuclear weapons? Nuclear program? Nahhhh....... it's only for electricity :idea:

If Iran were only interested in generating electricity, and especialy NOT interested in inciting suspicion that they are pursuing a clandestine nuclear weapons program, they would not be building a heavy water reactor.

IR-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
If Iran were only interested in generating electricity, and especialy NOT interested in inciting suspicion that they are pursuing a clandestine nuclear weapons program, they would not be building a heavy water reactor.

IR-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My guess is the poster was being facetious. I thought it was funny.
 
My guess is the poster was being facetious. I thought it was funny.

I am absolutely certain that the poster was being facetious. I thought it was funny too.
 
"There is extensive evidence Israel has nuclear weapons or a near-ready nuclear weapons capability."

"According to the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Federation of American Scientists, Israel likely possesses around 75–200 nuclear weapons.[39][5] Imagery analysts can identify weapon bunkers, mobile missile launchers, and launch sites in satellite photographs.[citation needed] In May 2008, former US President Jimmy Carter stated that "Israel has 150 or more [nuclear weapons]."

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Four years after the United States dropped atomic bombs on Japan in August 1945, the Soviet Union detonated its first nuclear device. The United Kingdom (1952), France (1960), and China (1964) followed. Seeking to prevent the nuclear weapon ranks from expanding further, the United States and other like-minded states negotiated the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1968. In the decades since, several states have abandoned nuclear weapons programs, but others have defied the NPT. India, Israel, and Pakistan have never signed the treaty and possess nuclear arsenals."

Nuclear Weapons: Who Has What at a Glance | Arms Control Association


Latest data in 2009: Israel - Nuclear warheads - 200 (total)

Nuclear weapons: how many are there in 2009 and who has them? | World news | guardian.co.uk
And still no credible source has proof Israel is a nuclear power. You can find plenty of sources that make that claim but none that can back it up.

From Wiki: "possibly 1979 (See Vela Incident)"
From ACA: "Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms."
Your third source doesn't list a source or have any proof other than a name on a list. (There's no way to tell if a missile is armed with a nuke or a conventional warhead without close-up examination.)

Like I said, as far as I know there is no PROOF. I'm inclined to agree with most people that they probably do have them but they've done a very good job of concealing it if they do.

It's a conspiracy theory and it's all Tom Clancy's fault!!! :lol:
(read The Sum of All Fears 1991)

You may as well include Japan as to include Israel. Japan is certainly nuke capable and from what I've read could put a whole weapons program - cranking them out one after another - in place inside a year. How long the first would take to build is unknown.
 
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IS the US considering invading and occupying Israel???
It doesnt really matter whether there are plans to invade Isreal or not. What does matter is that no one knows for sure that Israel has nukes. Assumptions are being made that Israel has nukes that affect the region. Isnt it the same people telling us that Israel has nukes that told us that Iraq had WMD's?
 
And still no credible source has proof Israel is a nuclear power. You can find plenty of sources that make that claim but none that can back it up.

From Wiki: "possibly 1979 (See Vela Incident)"
From ACA: "Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms."
Your third source doesn't list a source or have any proof other than a name on a list. (There's no way to tell if a missile is armed with a nuke or a conventional warhead without close-up examination.)

Like I said, as far as I know there is no PROOF. I'm inclined to agree with most people that they probably do have them but they've done a very good job of concealing it if they do.

It's a conspiracy theory and it's all Tom Clancy's fault!!! :lol:
(read The Sum of All Fears 1991)

You may as well include Japan as to include Israel. Japan is certainly nuke capable and from what I've read could put a whole weapons program - cranking them out one after another - in place inside a year. How long the first would take to build is unknown.

Photographic evidence and Jimmy Carter's word is enough for me, in addition to all the other sources that confirm it. You are of course welcome to believe what you will.
 
Photographic evidence and Jimmy Carter's word is enough for me, in addition to all the other sources that confirm it. You are of course welcome to believe what you will.
Photographic evidence of what? A bunch of missiles? That's not evidence of nuclear warheads. Iran has missiles, Saddam had missiles, so what? :shrug:

As for Carter and others claiming they exist, that could be nothing more than posturing. Isn't it interesting that SecDef Gates and Israeli PM Olmert said the same thing in 2006, then Carter said it in 2008, and all were talking about Iran and nukes? Show me a nuclear warhead with a Star of David painted on the side then I might believe it. Until then I'm sticking to the official story line - Israel is not a nuclear power and there is no physical evidence that it is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7420573.stm

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And I will reiterate - I tend to believe Israel has nukes and has had for quite awhile. However, I have no proof to back up that opinion.
 
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And still no credible source has proof Israel is a nuclear power. You can find plenty of sources that make that claim but none that can back it up.

From Wiki: "possibly 1979 (See Vela Incident)"
From ACA: "Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms."
Your third source doesn't list a source or have any proof other than a name on a list. (There's no way to tell if a missile is armed with a nuke or a conventional warhead without close-up examination.)

Like I said, as far as I know there is no PROOF. I'm inclined to agree with most people that they probably do have them but they've done a very good job of concealing it if they do.

It's a conspiracy theory and it's all Tom Clancy's fault!!! :lol:
(read The Sum of All Fears 1991)

You may as well include Japan as to include Israel. Japan is certainly nuke capable and from what I've read could put a whole weapons program - cranking them out one after another - in place inside a year. How long the first would take to build is unknown.


"Three states—India, Israel, and Pakistan—never joined the NPT and are known to possess nuclear weapons. Claiming its nuclear program was for peaceful purposes, India first tested a nuclear explosive device in 1974. That test spurred Pakistan to ramp up work on its secret nuclear weapons program. India and Pakistan both publicly demonstrated their nuclear weapon capabilities with a round of tit-for-tat nuclear tests in May 1998. Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms. The following arsenal estimates are based on the amount of fissile material—highly enriched uranium and plutonium—that each of the states is estimated to have produced. Fissile material is the key element for making nuclear weapons. India and Israel are believed to use plutonium in their weapons, while Pakistan is thought to use highly enriched uranium.

India: Up to 100 nuclear warheads.
Israel: Between 75 to 200 nuclear warheads.
Pakistan: Between 70 to 90 nuclear warheads."

"Sources: Arms Control Association, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Central Intelligence Agency, Congressional Research Service, Federation of American Scientists, Institute for Science and International Security, International Atomic Energy Agency, Natural Resources Defense Council, U.S. Department of Defense, and U.S. Department of State."

Nuclear Weapons: Who Has What at a Glance | Arms Control Association



In May 2008, former US President Jimmy Carter stated that "Israel has 150 or more [nuclear weapons]."

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
It doesnt really matter whether there are plans to invade Isreal or not. What does matter is that no one knows for sure that Israel has nukes. Assumptions are being made that Israel has nukes that affect the region. Isnt it the same people telling us that Israel has nukes that told us that Iraq had WMD's?

It mostly appears to be the same ones that told us that Iraq had WMD that are now denying that Israel has them.
 
It mostly appears to be the same ones that told us that Iraq had WMD that are now denying that Israel has them.
I hope you're not including me with those idiots!


I read the above article before. Let me point to the key words here: universally believed.

I'm sorry, I don't care how often you repeat or highlight it that just doesn't read "Is known to have them". It doesn't say an "undisputed belief" or better yet "undisputed fact" it's says "universally believed". At one time it was "universally believed" that the Earth was flat. Republicans "universally believed" that Saddam had WMDs in 2003. As I also said earlier, I'm part of those universal believers (if you will). I think they've got them, too, but regardless of how much I believe it to be true my belief does not make it fact.
 
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I hope you're not including me with those idiots!


No, I wasn't including you in with those idiots, that's why I used the descripter, "most".


I read the above article before. Let me point to the key words here: universally believed.

I'm sorry, I don't care how often you repeat or highlight it that just doesn't read "Is known to have them". It doesn't say an "undisputed belief" or better yet "undisputed fact" it's says "universally believed". At one time it was "universally believed" that the Earth was flat. Republicans "universally believed" that Saddam had WMDs in 2003. As I also said earlier, I'm part of those universal believers (if you will). I think they've got them, too, but regardless of how much I believe it to be true my belief does not make it fact..

Believe whatever you like!
 
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It mostly appears to be the same ones that told us that Iraq had WMD that are now denying that Israel has them.

Personally I think it is possible that Israel has nukes. On the other hand it is possible that Israel and Jimmy Carter are bluffing. And looking at the context of how Carter was using his assertions on Israel nukes it sounded more like a threat than anything. That is if you look at as his timing and assertions in context with diplomacy. He basically said 'give it up Iran it is pointless for you to have nukes'. But it is impossible to know one way or the other if Israel has nukes. Someday we will know one way or another.
 
What is this 'possible'?

Israel acts like it has nukes, talks like it has nukes, and pretty much every country on earth takes it as a given that it does.

Let's not mention they attempted to sell weaponized nuclear technology to south Africa a while back and were discovered recently.
 
What is this 'possible'?

Israel acts like it has nukes, talks like it has nukes, and pretty much every country on earth takes it as a given that it does.

Let's not mention they attempted to sell weaponized nuclear technology to south Africa a while back and were discovered recently.

So you have proof of Israels nukes? Please share it with the world.

Wouldn't someone that is bluffing that they have a gun in their pocket also act as if they really did? Like I said it is possible that Israel has nukes, and most likely they do. But I will remain agnostic on the idea up until there is proof. Just like how I didnt believe that Iraq had any WMD's up until it was determined they did not.
 
This is a rather naive point of view.The rest of the region fears Iran having nuclear weapons. Iran is views as a threat to peace.


In a study done by the "Arab American Institute six Arab nations poll show real concern with Iran’s current and future role in the region."


Arab Attitudes Toward Iran: 2011 | The Arab American Institute

How does that refute my point? No one argued that other nations don't view Iran as a threat. But Iran using a nuke is the topic here. Not the belligerent nature of the regime. Did you completely fail to notice the bolded words?
 
If Israel doesn't have nukes, why did they throw the Diamona whistleblower in jail?
If some US worker from one of our nuclear testing and research facilities started blabbing to the World Press we'd throw them in jail, too. It's also suspected that Dimona produces depleted uranium for use in military applications. You don't think there are secrets they might want kept about some of that stuff, too? Plenty of reasons to throw a traitor in jail, nukes not required.
 
Israel's Nuclear Weapon Capability: An Overview

The Risk Report
Volume 2 Number 4 (July-August 1996).

"Today, Israel is the world's sixth most powerful nuclear state, with a stockpile of more than 100 nuclear weapons and with the components and ability to build atomic, neutron and hydrogen bombs. Israel's nuclear program began and still operates under tight secrecy, but in the 1980s a series of revelations showed the crucial role played by foreign suppliers.

France launched Israel on the nuclear path in the late 1950s by building the Dimona reactor, which is still the source of Israel's plutonium--its main nuclear weapon fuel. The reactor's heavy water, essential to achieve a chain reaction, was supplied by Norway in 1959. In 1963, when the reactor started operation, the United States supplied four more tons of heavy water.

Israel got other nuclear help from the United States, which also supplied a small 5-megawatt (thermal) research reactor at Nahal Soreq. The reactor started in 1960, but cannot produce significant quantities of plutonium. Instead, the reactor offered an early training ground for Israeli nuclear technicians. Later in the 1960s, Israel was widely thought to have smuggled more than 100 kilograms of highly enriched uranium out of a nuclear materials plant in Pennsylvania."

"in 1968 the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reported to President Lyndon Johnson its conclusion that Israel had already made an atomic bomb. In 1969, Israel limited inspection visits by U.S. scientists to such an extent that the Americans complained in writing. Without explanation, the Nixon administration ended the visits the following year.

The CIA continued to report on Israel's nuclear weapon progress during the 1970s. In a September 1974 memorandum, "Prospects for Further Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons," the CIA cited "Israeli acquisition of large quantities of uranium, partly by clandestine means" as further evidence that "Israel already has produced nuclear weapons." The CIA also cited Israeli missile development as evidence that Israel had made nuclear weapons--the CIA said the Jericho made little sense as a conventional missile and was "designed to accommodate nuclear warheads." In a February 1976 report to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, CIA Deputy Director for Science and Technology Carl Duckett reported that Israel was already making bombs with plutonium produced in its Dimona reactor."

Israel's Nuclear Weapon Capability: An Overview
 
You're singing to the choir, here. Plenty of people believe it - hell, I believe it! - and most act on that belief but it's still not a fact. Israel has done a pretty good job of keeping their nuclear capability ambiguous and they've kept it up for over 40 years. You've got to give them credit for that.

If Israel is particularly smart what they've got is bombs with no cores - and cores stored somewhere else with a different group of people having access to those. That way they can in all honesty say they have no nuclear weapons.
 
Israel's Nuclear Weapon Capability: An Overview

The Risk Report
Volume 2 Number 4 (July-August 1996).

"Today, Israel is the world's sixth most powerful nuclear state, with a stockpile of more than 100 nuclear weapons and with the components and ability to build atomic, neutron and hydrogen bombs. Israel's nuclear program began and still operates under tight secrecy, but in the 1980s a series of revelations showed the crucial role played by foreign suppliers.

France launched Israel on the nuclear path in the late 1950s by building the Dimona reactor, which is still the source of Israel's plutonium--its main nuclear weapon fuel. The reactor's heavy water, essential to achieve a chain reaction, was supplied by Norway in 1959. In 1963, when the reactor started operation, the United States supplied four more tons of heavy water.

Israel got other nuclear help from the United States, which also supplied a small 5-megawatt (thermal) research reactor at Nahal Soreq. The reactor started in 1960, but cannot produce significant quantities of plutonium. Instead, the reactor offered an early training ground for Israeli nuclear technicians. Later in the 1960s, Israel was widely thought to have smuggled more than 100 kilograms of highly enriched uranium out of a nuclear materials plant in Pennsylvania."

"in 1968 the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reported to President Lyndon Johnson its conclusion that Israel had already made an atomic bomb. In 1969, Israel limited inspection visits by U.S. scientists to such an extent that the Americans complained in writing. Without explanation, the Nixon administration ended the visits the following year.

The CIA continued to report on Israel's nuclear weapon progress during the 1970s. In a September 1974 memorandum, "Prospects for Further Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons," the CIA cited "Israeli acquisition of large quantities of uranium, partly by clandestine means" as further evidence that "Israel already has produced nuclear weapons." The CIA also cited Israeli missile development as evidence that Israel had made nuclear weapons--the CIA said the Jericho made little sense as a conventional missile and was "designed to accommodate nuclear warheads." In a February 1976 report to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, CIA Deputy Director for Science and Technology Carl Duckett reported that Israel was already making bombs with plutonium produced in its Dimona reactor."

Israel's Nuclear Weapon Capability: An Overview

Well then that should mean that you find credibility in this link since its the same people. WPONAC: Iran's Nuclear Program
 
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