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Thread: Bargain With Iran

  1. #81
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That is why I specifically mentioned getting out of the war... I think that in most other issues especially the economy Obama doesn't know what the hell he is doing.
    But considering the past dozen or so financial recessions, no one really does. A fact that partisans generally don't like to admit. I gave the example of the Thai Prime Minister during the Asian Crisis to Conservative and that guy ran from that point so fast it made my head spin.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #82
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Are they?

    [url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/09/panetta-admits-iran-not-developing-nukes/]Panetta admits Iran not developing nukes | The Raw Story[/url
    That does not make sense. There is no reason to enrich to 20% in large quantities unless you are explicitly trying to make weapons. Furthermore, there is no reason to build the type of reactors Iran wants and keeping the waste fuel unless you want to make weapons. Economically and environmentally it is superior to simply buy fuel rods from Russia, send the waste back and buy new ones rather than having to enrich yourself and deal with the huge amounts of waste. Iran has the same type of plants the UK built explicitly to breed fuel for UK nuclear weapons. The UK was not interested in power when it built the breeder reactors. It was interested in produce tons of waste to make nuclear weapons from. On top of that, it's cheaper just to buy the nuclear capabilities on the open market from Japan, China, South Korea, France, Russia or the United States then to home grow it yourself. Westinghouse offers decent deals on nuclear power facilities, maintenance and expertise. Hell of a lot cheaper then to build fortified facilities to enrich costly uranium for a civilian plant in which you're stuck with mountains of highly radioactive waste. Furthermore, with that type of contract, Israel has little reason to attack you as it's all transparent.

    Iran is actively working towards a nuclear weapon. That much is certain. While their claim they want peaceful civilian power is indeed true based on their declining oil production and weak refining, it does not change the fact they are taking steps no rational civilian only nuclear power seeking country would take.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #83
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    If the US have an absolute assurance and reasons to believe such, then yes, the US should take the bargain.
    However, the chance of this proposal is absolutely zero, and the chance of such proposal being kept is even slimmer than that
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  4. #84
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is no nuclear proliferation going on as far as I have heard.
    According to the most recent IAEA report:

    While the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material at the nuclear facilities and LOFs declared by Iran under its Safeguards Agreement, as Iran is not providing the necessary cooperation, including by not implementing its additional Protocol, the Agency is unable to provide credible assurance about the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran, and therefore to conclude that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities.

    The Agency has serious concerns regarding possible military dimensions to Iranís nuclear programme. After assessing carefully and critically the extensive information available to it, the Agency finds the information to be, overall, credible. The information indicates that Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device. The information also indicates that prior to the end of 2003, these activities took place under a structured programme, and that some activities may still be ongoing
    This would be in violation of Article 3 of the NPT:

    Each non-NWS party undertakes to conclude an agreement with the IAEA for the application of its safeguards to all nuclear material in all of the state's peaceful nuclear activities and to prevent diversion of such material to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.

  5. #85
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That does not make sense. There is no reason to enrich to 20% in large quantities unless you are explicitly trying to make weapons. Furthermore, there is no reason to build the type of reactors Iran wants and keeping the waste fuel unless you want to make weapons. Economically and environmentally it is superior to simply buy fuel rods from Russia, send the waste back and buy new ones rather than having to enrich yourself and deal with the huge amounts of waste. Iran has the same type of plants the UK built explicitly to breed fuel for UK nuclear weapons. The UK was not interested in power when it built the breeder reactors. It was interested in produce tons of waste to make nuclear weapons from. On top of that, it's cheaper just to buy the nuclear capabilities on the open market from Japan, China, South Korea, France, Russia or the United States then to home grow it yourself. Westinghouse offers decent deals on nuclear power facilities, maintenance and expertise. Hell of a lot cheaper then to build fortified facilities to enrich costly uranium for a civilian plant in which you're stuck with mountains of highly radioactive waste. Furthermore, with that type of contract, Israel has little reason to attack you as it's all transparent.

    Iran is actively working towards a nuclear weapon. That much is certain. While their claim they want peaceful civilian power is indeed true based on their declining oil production and weak refining, it does not change the fact they are taking steps no rational civilian only nuclear power seeking country would take.
    If it is so certain, then why doesn't the IAEA or or Panetta seem to think so?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If it is so certain, then why doesn't the IAEA or or Panetta seem to think so?
    The IAEA has said that it thinks Iran is developing nuclear weapons. Again from the most recent report:

    Previous reports by the Director General have identified outstanding issues related to possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme and actions required of Iran to resolve these. Since 2002, the Agency has become increasingly concerned about the possible existence in Iran of undisclosed nuclear related activities involving military related organizations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile, about which the Agency has regularly received new information.

  7. #87
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    According to the most recent IAEA report:



    This would be in violation of Article 3 of the NPT:
    As we found out the hard way in Iraq, technical violations of protocol does not equate to a threat to the US.
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  8. #88
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Possible. In other words, they have no evidence of it. It is fine to be wary, but is a precaution a good enough reason to go to war?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #89
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Possible. In other words, they have no evidence of it. It is fine to be wary, but is a precaution a good enough reason to go to war?
    No, once again:

    After assessing carefully and critically the extensive information available to it, the Agency finds the information to be, overall, credible. The information indicates that Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device.
    That is saying there is evidence.

  10. #90
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    No, once again:



    That is saying there is evidence.
    Relevant to does not mean necessarily so. Again, do we really want to get into a war again if we're not completely certain?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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