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Thread: Bargain With Iran

  1. #231
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'd be more willing to agree with some Republicans at the time that it was a ploy to distract the press from Lewinsky than I would believe a bi-partisan, 5-year conspiracy to invade Iraq. Honestly, I don't think the two sides can cooperate over that long a time period.
    I don't think it was a conspiracy, just wrongheaded public policy based more on middle east oil resources than actual military threats to the US.
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  2. #232
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You tell me, we spent $2 trillion dollars going to war with them and it didn't make us any safer! It would be more than silly to repeat the same mistake in Iran, wouldn't it?
    WTF are you stupid or something? Seriously why the hell are you going on about this to me?? I already numerous times directly told you that I saw no reason to go to war with Iran. ANd I never supported war with Iraq. So go bitch to someone else your bull**** has nothing to do with me.

    My only point was that Iran is not an innocent by stander that never would do something stupid. How you translated that to what you just said is beyond me. Do you here voices or something?

  3. #233
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post

    I went looking for that but couldn't find the info easily and put it on the back burner. Thanks!

    The rest of your post deserved repeating.

    As a memory spur to those that forgot, don't you remember the first guided bomb videos from Iraq? Targeting and hitting a single building in the middle of Baghdad? Even getting pretty close to the floor of the building we wanted to hit? And that was a decade ago - technological progress doesn't stop.
    The weapon is the MOP (Massive Ordinance Penetrator)
    Massive Ordnance Penetrator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Specifications

    Length: 20.5 feet (6.2 m)[13]
    Diameter: 31.5 inches (0.8 m)[13]
    Weight: 30,000 pounds (14 tonnes)
    Warhead: 5,300 pounds (2.4 tonnes) high explosive
    Penetration: 200 ft (61 m)[6]
    I remember watching videos of bombs flying in through windows and doorways. And of course even bunkers need air ventilation...about the size of a window.
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  4. #234
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    The weapon is the MOP (Massive Ordinance Penetrator)
    Massive Ordnance Penetrator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    I remember watching videos of bombs flying in through windows and doorways. And of course even bunkers need air ventilation...about the size of a window.
    Militarily speaking MOP's have the same deterrent factor as nukes. They are what is considered a game changer. And the research isnt over yet by a long shot.

    In fact they want 82m to further that project.

    New 30,000 lb. MOP bunker buster bomb needs $82M upgrade

  5. #235
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Militarily speaking MOP's have the same deterrent factor as nukes. They are what is considered a game changer. And the research isnt over yet by a long shot.

    In fact they want 82m to further that project.

    New 30,000 lb. MOP bunker buster bomb needs $82M upgrade
    Now I'm just guessing here, but I think they're finding the current MOP will not destroy some of the facilities in a single attack. But that doesn't mean multiple blasts would fail. Broken up rock is far easier to penetrate.
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  6. #236
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    WTF are you stupid or something?


    Do you here voices or something?

    Impressive!!!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #237
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It isn't Iran using a nuke as a country that I'm worried about. I have no doubt Iran would use those as a deterrent. But what if, for whatever reason, Manhattan goes up in a nuclear cloud someday and the material used is traced back to Iran?
    Then the Mullahs will die. And they know that. Which renders your argument moot. Furthermore, despite the lunatic rantings of idiots here, Iran has never given its best weapons to terrorists. The best they'll do is sell them relatively obsolete anti-air missiles and shaped charges. That's 1940s and 1970s tech. Hezbollah does not use the best stuff Iran has. The real problem with an Iranian nuke is everyone else in the region getting one. That is a powder keg. Staistically the more nukes you have, the better chance one can steal one.

    Then a whole, new Pandora's Box is opened and I really don't want to think about the ****storm of possibilities then. We'll be forced to respond but if Iran has nukes exactly what do you suppose that response will be? I don't think economic sanctions are going to cut it under those conditions and I'm sure Iran won't take responsibility, either. That leaves few choices and all of them really, really bad.
    If a nukes goes off in America, every nation will open its doors for inspections to prove they didn't do it. No country is stupid enough to let a nuke fall through the cracks unless it's undergoing a serious revolution, (aka, RUSSIA). And even in Russia's stance we still haven't seen a nuke used despite the underbelly of Islamic radicalism.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #238
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I'm hearing the same saber rattling I heard leading up to our attack on Iraq.....................
    True, but at least Iran has decent evidence for a change. Taking politics entirely out of the equation and the mere technical issues and the Israeli like secrecy suggest they are building nuclear weapons.

    It makes more sense to simply buy fuel rods from Russia and send them back them enrich yourself.

    There's really no reason to build an expensive heavy water breeder plant these days unless you want to produce fissile material for weapons.

    There's no reason to build enrichment facilities deep underground unless you're planning for an attack. And if you are building purely civilian, then why plan on an attack?

    IMO, Iraq was a pack of lies. Iran's justification is not.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #239
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Then the Mullahs will die. And they know that.
    there are two unfounded assumptions in that statement:
    1. that they really believe that
    2. that they really care

    Which renders your argument moot. Furthermore, despite the lunatic rantings of idiots here, Iran has never given its best weapons to terrorists.
    you are mistaking "largest weapons systems" for "best weapons". In fact, as regards the most technologically advanced weaponry (rather than, for example, your standard Order Of Battle gear such as tanks, MRLS's etc.), those are indeed used by the Qods Forces.

    The real problem with an Iranian nuke is everyone else in the region getting one. That is a powder keg
    a powder keg? it's a mexican standoff between three violent schizophrenics, each partially controlled by and unable to control it's most violent tendencies. It's a friggin nightmare.

  10. #240
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    there are two unfounded assumptions in that statement:
    1. that they really believe that
    2. that they really care
    If they did either, they would have risked everything by giving their chemical weapons stores to the Arabs during the various Israeli-Arab wars. They didn't. The Mullahs are not crazy. Despite the lunatic rantings of morons here. The fact that Iran constantly wages proxy wars against a conventionally superior foe shows they aren't stupid but can indeed engage in stragetic calculus to get the best bang for their buck.

    you are mistaking "largest weapons systems" for "best weapons". In fact, as regards the most technologically advanced weaponry (rather than, for example, your standard Order Of Battle gear such as tanks, MRLS's etc.), those are indeed used by the Qods Forces.
    Come again? The best stuff Iran gives to terrorists dates back to the 70s. The notion they'd let the pinnacle of Iranian weaponry out of their hands is insane.

    a powder keg? it's a mexican standoff between three violent schizophrenics, each partially controlled by and unable to control it's most violent tendencies. It's a friggin nightmare.
    Three? That's a low ball number. It's possible that the Jordanians will fall under the Saudi blanket with Bahrain, but the UAE, Yemen, Iraq, Syria (to counter Saudi Arabia) and other will all push for nukes. Saudi Arabia already is rumored to have a weapons program. None of these nations are ruled by violent schizophrenics, but they all have religious crazies within their populations. Iran in isolation with a nukes is really not that bad. Even the Israels are starting to accept that based on articles coming out of mainstream Israeli papers. It's everyone else getting them that scares the pants off everyone else in the region.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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