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Thread: Bargain With Iran

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I know, and I hope a full-scale invasion is NOT planned. I hope military action of any kind is unnecessary. But if it does, it will be most likely limited strikes on very specific targets. I could not support anything more than that.
    I don't know how limited strikes are possible with 22 deeply embedded targets .. and without a massive slaughter of civilians.

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I know, and I hope a full-scale invasion is NOT planned. I hope military action of any kind is unnecessary. But if it does, it will be most likely limited strikes on very specific targets. I could not support anything more than that.
    I could not support that based on what we know at present, no more than I could support another country making very limited strikes on very specific military targets in this country just because they thought we might be a threat to another country someday.
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We didn't have any large scale attacks, we had a 19 Saudi terrorists steal some of our own airliners. Attacking and invading Iraq sooner would not have stopped that. I don't support Iran, I am just not paranoid about Iran.
    Iraq? WTF are you talking about? What does Iraq have to do with anything?

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Iraq? WTF are you talking about? What does Iraq have to do with anything?
    You tell me, we spent $2 trillion dollars going to war with them and it didn't make us any safer! It would be more than silly to repeat the same mistake in Iran, wouldn't it?
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    I don't know how limited strikes are possible with 22 deeply embedded targets .. and without a massive slaughter of civilians.
    "Limited Strikes" is a common phrase that really means, "limited to specific targets to achieve the goal." You're thinking about this in terms of civilian casualties because (and I'm only surmising here), you're thinking like the Hamas. They launch weapons to anything within range to express displeasure. Casualties are their goal, and since they have an unlimited budget, they don't worry about how effective they are. This does more to harm their cause than help, but they don't seem to realize that.

    A modern military cannot afford such childishness. A modern military is extremely expensive so when they expend munitions (spend money) they MUST have a measurable effect. Therefore strikes on Iran, cannot be launched at just anything. They must hit the target, and only that target. Anything else is a waste of time, material, money, and lives. ANY civilian death is counter-productive to a modern military's goal. So limited strikes on Iran must be exactly on target or the mission is considered a failure.

    Absolutely no other country in the world is as good as the US at this. No other country in the world spends the billions the US does at preventing civilian casualties. The best way to do this this hit your target and only your target. Blasts wasted on anything but the target are wasted blasts.

    Lastly, the latest deep penetrators the US has can blow through 200ft of hardened concrete. If that's not enough, well then 200 ft of material have been removed or rendered ineffective. The next one will surely have the desired effect. Iran's very expensive buried facilities have no chance. Honest negotiations are Iran's only real opportunity.

    Oh, and only a few of Iran's nuclear facilities are deeply embedded. Everyone talks about them, but the deeply embedded ones are the minority. Most are very easily removed targets with common munitions.
    Last edited by EagleAye; 02-14-12 at 03:41 PM.
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You tell me, we spent $2 trillion dollars going to war with them and it didn't make us any safer! It would be more than silly to repeat the same mistake in Iran, wouldn't it?
    Com'on. Iraq was a political war and had nothing to do with terrorist regardless of what the Party Line was at the time. People were basically incited to invade Iraq because there was no real reason to do it. Iran is a different story altogether and I don't think anyone is arguing for a full-scale invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    I don't know how limited strikes are possible with 22 deeply embedded targets .. and without a massive slaughter of civilians.
    I'm not sure all 22 targets need to be taken out. Cut any link in the chain and the chain is useless.

    Also (and I'm not one of these people) you're just feeding the maw of those who wanted to take military action a year ago. Had we taken out the targets before they were buried things would have been much simpler. We saw them doing it and should have bombed them, then. At least that's what our Hawks would say.


    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Absolutely no other country in the world is as good as the US at this. No other country in the world spends the billions the US does at preventing civilian casualties. The best way to do this this hit your target and only your target. Blasts wasted on anything but the target are wasted blasts.

    Lastly, the latest deep penetrators the US has can blow through 200ft of hardened concrete. If that's not enough, well then 200 ft of material have been removed or rendered ineffective. The next one will surely have the desired effect. Iran's very expensive buried facilities have no chance. Honest negotiations are Iran's only real opportunity.

    Oh, and only a few of Iran's nuclear facilities are deeply embedded. Everyone talks about them, but the deeply embedded ones are the minority. Most are very easily removed targets with common munitions.
    I went looking for that but couldn't find the info easily and put it on the back burner. Thanks!

    The rest of your post deserved repeating.

    As a memory spur to those that forgot, don't you remember the first guided bomb videos from Iraq? Targeting and hitting a single building in the middle of Baghdad? Even getting pretty close to the floor of the building we wanted to hit? And that was a decade ago - technological progress doesn't stop.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-14-12 at 03:48 PM.
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    "Limited Strikes" is a common phrase that really means, "limited to specific targets to achieve the goal." You're thinking about this in terms of civilian casualties because (and I'm only surmising here), you're thinking like the Hamas. They launch weapons to anything within range to express displeasure. Casualties are their goal, and since they have an unlimited budget, they don't worry about how effective they are. This does more to harm their cause than help, but they don't seem to realize that.

    A modern military cannot afford such childishness. A modern military is extremely expensive so when they expend munitions (spend money) they MUST have a measurable effect. Therefore strikes on Iran, cannot be launched at just anything. They must hit the target, and only that target. Anything else is a waste of time, material, money, and lives. ANY civilian death is counter-productive to a modern military's goal. So limited strikes on Iran must be exactly on target or the mission is considered a failure.

    Absolutely no other country in the world is as good as the US at this. No other country in the world spends the billions the US does at preventing civilian casualties. The best way to do this this hit your target and only your target. Blasts wasted on anything but the target are wasted blasts.

    Lastly, the latest deep penetrators the US has can blow through 200ft of hardened concrete. If that's not enough, well then 200 ft of material have been removed or rendered ineffective. The next one will surely have the desired effect. Iran's very expensive buried facilities have no chance. Honest negotiations are Iran's only real opportunity.
    Penetration may be less than a few meters.. but we do have GPS.. so I suppose we could pound the same target again and again.

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Penetration may be less than a few meters.. but we do have GPS.. so I suppose we could pound the same target again and again.
    200 feet = 60.96 meters. Waaaay more than a few.
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Com'on. Iraq was a political war and had nothing to do with terrorist regardless of what the Party Line was at the time. People were basically incited to invade Iraq because there was no real reason to do it. Iran is a different story altogether and I don't think anyone is arguing for a full-scale invasion.
    And that is different from Iraq, how??? Didn't we just do a bombing run on Iraq first as well?

    Clinton orders air attack on Iraq — History.com This Day in History — 12/16/1998
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And that is different from Iraq, how??? Didn't we just do a bombing run on Iraq first as well?

    Clinton orders air attack on Iraq — History.com This Day in History — 12/16/1998
    I'd be more willing to agree with some Republicans at the time that it was a ploy to distract the press from Lewinsky than I would believe a bi-partisan, 5-year conspiracy to invade Iraq. Honestly, I don't think the two sides can cooperate over that long a time period.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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