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Thread: Bargain With Iran

  1. #161
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And still no credible source has proof Israel is a nuclear power. You can find plenty of sources that make that claim but none that can back it up.

    From Wiki: "possibly 1979 (See Vela Incident)"
    From ACA: "Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms."
    Your third source doesn't list a source or have any proof other than a name on a list. (There's no way to tell if a missile is armed with a nuke or a conventional warhead without close-up examination.)

    Like I said, as far as I know there is no PROOF. I'm inclined to agree with most people that they probably do have them but they've done a very good job of concealing it if they do.

    It's a conspiracy theory and it's all Tom Clancy's fault!!!
    (read The Sum of All Fears 1991)

    You may as well include Japan as to include Israel. Japan is certainly nuke capable and from what I've read could put a whole weapons program - cranking them out one after another - in place inside a year. How long the first would take to build is unknown.
    Photographic evidence and Jimmy Carter's word is enough for me, in addition to all the other sources that confirm it. You are of course welcome to believe what you will.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #162
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Photographic evidence and Jimmy Carter's word is enough for me, in addition to all the other sources that confirm it. You are of course welcome to believe what you will.
    Photographic evidence of what? A bunch of missiles? That's not evidence of nuclear warheads. Iran has missiles, Saddam had missiles, so what?

    As for Carter and others claiming they exist, that could be nothing more than posturing. Isn't it interesting that SecDef Gates and Israeli PM Olmert said the same thing in 2006, then Carter said it in 2008, and all were talking about Iran and nukes? Show me a nuclear warhead with a Star of David painted on the side then I might believe it. Until then I'm sticking to the official story line - Israel is not a nuclear power and there is no physical evidence that it is.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7420573.stm

    Edit:
    And I will reiterate - I tend to believe Israel has nukes and has had for quite awhile. However, I have no proof to back up that opinion.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-12-12 at 01:18 AM.

  3. #163
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And still no credible source has proof Israel is a nuclear power. You can find plenty of sources that make that claim but none that can back it up.

    From Wiki: "possibly 1979 (See Vela Incident)"
    From ACA: "Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms."
    Your third source doesn't list a source or have any proof other than a name on a list. (There's no way to tell if a missile is armed with a nuke or a conventional warhead without close-up examination.)

    Like I said, as far as I know there is no PROOF. I'm inclined to agree with most people that they probably do have them but they've done a very good job of concealing it if they do.

    It's a conspiracy theory and it's all Tom Clancy's fault!!!
    (read The Sum of All Fears 1991)

    You may as well include Japan as to include Israel. Japan is certainly nuke capable and from what I've read could put a whole weapons program - cranking them out one after another - in place inside a year. How long the first would take to build is unknown.

    "Three states—India, Israel, and Pakistan—never joined the NPT and are known to possess nuclear weapons. Claiming its nuclear program was for peaceful purposes, India first tested a nuclear explosive device in 1974. That test spurred Pakistan to ramp up work on its secret nuclear weapons program. India and Pakistan both publicly demonstrated their nuclear weapon capabilities with a round of tit-for-tat nuclear tests in May 1998. Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test, does not admit to or deny having nuclear weapons, and states that it will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Nevertheless, Israel is universally believed to possess nuclear arms. The following arsenal estimates are based on the amount of fissile material—highly enriched uranium and plutonium—that each of the states is estimated to have produced. Fissile material is the key element for making nuclear weapons. India and Israel are believed to use plutonium in their weapons, while Pakistan is thought to use highly enriched uranium.

    India: Up to 100 nuclear warheads.
    Israel: Between 75 to 200 nuclear warheads.
    Pakistan: Between 70 to 90 nuclear warheads."

    "Sources: Arms Control Association, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Central Intelligence Agency, Congressional Research Service, Federation of American Scientists, Institute for Science and International Security, International Atomic Energy Agency, Natural Resources Defense Council, U.S. Department of Defense, and U.S. Department of State."

    Nuclear Weapons: Who Has What at a Glance | Arms Control Association



    In May 2008, former US President Jimmy Carter stated that "Israel has 150 or more [nuclear weapons]."

    List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #164
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    It doesnt really matter whether there are plans to invade Isreal or not. What does matter is that no one knows for sure that Israel has nukes. Assumptions are being made that Israel has nukes that affect the region. Isnt it the same people telling us that Israel has nukes that told us that Iraq had WMD's?
    It mostly appears to be the same ones that told us that Iraq had WMD that are now denying that Israel has them.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #165
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It mostly appears to be the same ones that told us that Iraq had WMD that are now denying that Israel has them.
    I hope you're not including me with those idiots!


    I read the above article before. Let me point to the key words here: universally believed.

    I'm sorry, I don't care how often you repeat or highlight it that just doesn't read "Is known to have them". It doesn't say an "undisputed belief" or better yet "undisputed fact" it's says "universally believed". At one time it was "universally believed" that the Earth was flat. Republicans "universally believed" that Saddam had WMDs in 2003. As I also said earlier, I'm part of those universal believers (if you will). I think they've got them, too, but regardless of how much I believe it to be true my belief does not make it fact.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-12-12 at 03:49 AM.

  6. #166
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I hope you're not including me with those idiots!

    No, I wasn't including you in with those idiots, that's why I used the descripter, "most".


    I read the above article before. Let me point to the key words here: universally believed.

    I'm sorry, I don't care how often you repeat or highlight it that just doesn't read "Is known to have them". It doesn't say an "undisputed belief" or better yet "undisputed fact" it's says "universally believed". At one time it was "universally believed" that the Earth was flat. Republicans "universally believed" that Saddam had WMDs in 2003. As I also said earlier, I'm part of those universal believers (if you will). I think they've got them, too, but regardless of how much I believe it to be true my belief does not make it fact..
    Believe whatever you like!
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-12-12 at 03:58 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #167
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It mostly appears to be the same ones that told us that Iraq had WMD that are now denying that Israel has them.
    Personally I think it is possible that Israel has nukes. On the other hand it is possible that Israel and Jimmy Carter are bluffing. And looking at the context of how Carter was using his assertions on Israel nukes it sounded more like a threat than anything. That is if you look at as his timing and assertions in context with diplomacy. He basically said 'give it up Iran it is pointless for you to have nukes'. But it is impossible to know one way or the other if Israel has nukes. Someday we will know one way or another.

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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    What is this 'possible'?

    Israel acts like it has nukes, talks like it has nukes, and pretty much every country on earth takes it as a given that it does.

    Let's not mention they attempted to sell weaponized nuclear technology to south Africa a while back and were discovered recently.

  9. #169
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    What is this 'possible'?

    Israel acts like it has nukes, talks like it has nukes, and pretty much every country on earth takes it as a given that it does.

    Let's not mention they attempted to sell weaponized nuclear technology to south Africa a while back and were discovered recently.
    So you have proof of Israels nukes? Please share it with the world.

    Wouldn't someone that is bluffing that they have a gun in their pocket also act as if they really did? Like I said it is possible that Israel has nukes, and most likely they do. But I will remain agnostic on the idea up until there is proof. Just like how I didnt believe that Iraq had any WMD's up until it was determined they did not.

  10. #170
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    Re: Bargain With Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    This is a rather naive point of view.The rest of the region fears Iran having nuclear weapons. Iran is views as a threat to peace.


    In a study done by the "Arab American Institute six Arab nations poll show real concern with Iran’s current and future role in the region."


    Arab Attitudes Toward Iran: 2011 | The Arab American Institute
    How does that refute my point? No one argued that other nations don't view Iran as a threat. But Iran using a nuke is the topic here. Not the belligerent nature of the regime. Did you completely fail to notice the bolded words?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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