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Thread: Is the UN a joke?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm undecided on that opinion. I guess it would come down to a few factors such as: How good is the intel., We did sign a pact so we are obligated to a degree, does the operation have a timeframe allowing for the police action exemption in the war powers act and if not how quickly can congress act. Things along that nature.
    lets say the intel says no threat to the west but they are hunting down civillians using a sophisticated armed forces, then what? ( not arguing your point just being the devils advocate)

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    lets say the intel says no threat to the west but they are hunting down civillians using a sophisticated armed forces, then what? ( not arguing your point just being the devils advocate)
    I'm kind of shaky about that scenario. I still believe that we should only use force as a last resort and in defense of ourselves or allies. However the Syria situation has other factors such as state sponsored terrorist actions which could bite us so I'm 50/50 on it. What I was thinking on intel was the actual ground situation, what tactics must be used, the casualty estimate, probability of success, etc.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #33
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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm kind of shaky about that scenario. I still believe that we should only use force as a last resort and in defense of ourselves or allies. However the Syria situation has other factors such as state sponsored terrorist actions which could bite us so I'm 50/50 on it. What I was thinking on intel was the actual ground situation, what tactics must be used, the casualty estimate, probability of success, etc.
    Good response and in my opinion should be the future of US foreign policy, instead of putting troops on the ground the US should take a more agressive role in the UN and so should my own country ( the Uk) as well as other Euro powers and should put their resources into NATO and the UN and should offer a united front. Cut the red tape thats been in the way and if a country like Iran starts breaking international laws then we bomb them and we make it hard for that goverment to carry on as they are, if a country tries to start mass genocide we move in. None of this waiting around we go in and get the job done no questions asked and then we leave a UN force to help rebuild the country.

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Good response and in my opinion should be the future of US foreign policy, instead of putting troops on the ground the US should take a more agressive role in the UN and so should my own country ( the Uk) as well as other Euro powers and should put their resources into NATO and the UN and should offer a united front. Cut the red tape thats been in the way and if a country like Iran starts breaking international laws then we bomb them and we make it hard for that goverment to carry on as they are, if a country tries to start mass genocide we move in. None of this waiting around we go in and get the job done no questions asked and then we leave a UN force to help rebuild the country.
    I dunno. I subscribe to a semi-isolationist stance, trust me I do not favor innocents being harmed and even less favor doing nothing but I don't think the U.N. is very good at fixing things. Resources are more limited than the third world dictators' disrespect of life and for that reason it's tough to use the full might of the first world to end very bad things. Now, if the U.N. can make an airtight case that something needs to be done and we all take the gloves off, I say "it's go time".
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I dunno. I subscribe to a semi-isolationist stance, trust me I do not favor innocents being harmed and even less favor doing nothing but I don't think the U.N. is very good at fixing things. Resources are more limited than the third world dictators' disrespect of life and for that reason it's tough to use the full might of the first world to end very bad things. Now, if the U.N. can make an airtight case that something needs to be done and we all take the gloves off, I say "it's go time".
    For me our history of sitting back and waiting see tactic has been a mess. We have either armed our future enemies or let dictators do as they please. For me we ar either in or we are out, this policy of going in with our hands tied behind our back has to stop. On a personal level I saw how messy that could get in Iraq and we are still stuck in Afghan. These mistakes have led to massive genocides in Africa and other countires where we have stood by and waited. The one thing we should of learned from the 1920's and 30's is that any hesitation is a sign of weakness and eventually it will embolden your enemies. If we are serious about making this a safe world we have to work together and stamp out all those who stand in the way

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    For me our history of sitting back and waiting see tactic has been a mess. We have either armed our future enemies or let dictators do as they please. For me we ar either in or we are out, this policy of going in with our hands tied behind our back has to stop. On a personal level I saw how messy that could get in Iraq and we are still stuck in Afghan. These mistakes have led to massive genocides in Africa and other countires where we have stood by and waited. The one thing we should of learned from the 1920's and 30's is that any hesitation is a sign of weakness and eventually it will embolden your enemies. If we are serious about making this a safe world we have to work together and stamp out all those who stand in the way
    Agree. This is why I am a semi-isolationist, if the U.S. had entered WWII earlier and Neville Chamberlain had taken the Nazi threat more seriously Hitler would have had a much smaller historical footnote, I then have to go to Vietnam to know that we screwed the pooch on that one for the supposed benefit of France who turned their backs on our efforts. So I think that neither the pure interventionist nor the pure non-interventionist side works and I take things on an as is basis.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Agree. This is why I am a semi-isolationist, if the U.S. had entered WWII earlier and Neville Chamberlain had taken the Nazi threat more seriously Hitler would have had a much smaller historical footnote, I then have to go to Vietnam to know that we screwed the pooch on that one for the supposed benefit of France who turned their backs on our efforts. So I think that neither the pure interventionist nor the pure non-interventionist side works and I take things on an as is basis.

    im off to bed but have enjoyed this little debate, some good points made.

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    im off to bed but have enjoyed this little debate, some good points made.
    You've made great points as well. Take care.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #39
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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I agree with this, but lets say Nato says right we hit Syria ( with UN consent) would you be in favor of US forces being used or would you need a vote in congress?
    It would come down to a vote in the United States Congress in order for us to commit OUR troops to a conflict. I mean that is the way it should be correct? It is the job of the UN, Nato, and President to convince us that we need to stand in the conflict correct?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Is the UN a joke?

    I've said it long ago, and I'll say it again: The US should divest in all UN interests and get out, and never, ever contribute a nickel. And get the UN HQ out of our country.

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