Pro-Life vs Anti-Choice

Cephus said:

In other words, as is no surprise whatsoever, you have no intelligent response. :roll:

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More diversion, Cephus? Do you have anything relevant to add to this thread?

Sunbelt said:

It took starting my own thread to realize how obnoxious this kind of response really is. How about you just stay on topic?

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Asking the question that you asked will naturally bring up the opposite question. Thats the way debates go.

Kal'Stang said:

Asking the question that you asked will naturally bring up the opposite question. Thats the way debates go.

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It's not the way polls go. If you look at the top of this thread, you will see that there are only two ways to vote, so naturally, you comment on how you voted. See how it works?

Sunbelt said:

It's not the way polls go. If you look at the top of this thread, you will see that there are only two ways to vote, so naturally, you comment on how you voted. See how it works?

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I didn't vote. You didn't have the correct answer in the poll options. As such my comments are going to reflect that. Just as anyone else's comments would.

Kal'Stang said:

I didn't vote. You didn't have the correct answer in the poll options. As such my comments are going to reflect that. Just as anyone else's comments would.

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You participated incorrectly, therefore, your response is irrelevant. Why don't you toddle over to the polls and cast your vote?

Sunbelt said:

You participated incorrectly, therefore, your response is irrelevant. Why don't you toddle over to the polls and cast your vote?

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I will when there is a valid poll option. Just because you don't like the response does not mean that my response is irrelevant.

I think the whole issue is just too politicized. All of these "conservatives" that allege they are pro-life are actually pro-whatever gets me a vote. I am pro-life, not anti-choice. I am all about personal freedom. However, I don't think a woman should the have the right to commit murder. I really believe abortion is murder. I don't think most of these politicians believe that. Rick Santorum is the first one to come along in a while that convinced me he is actually pro-life and not just pro-whatever gets me a vote. So, to answer the question. I believe that most conservatives are anti-choice because, well, its the opposite of what the liberals say.

Kal'Stang said:

I will when there is a valid poll option. Just because you don't like the response does not mean that my response is irrelevant.

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My not liking your response has nothing to do with your irrelevance. These are fair questions, and need to be addressed. You're a political correctness drone. From what I've seen so far, you are anywhere from "slightly liberal" to "slightly radical liberal".

Sunbelt said:

It's not the way polls go. If you look at the top of this thread, you will see that there are only two ways to vote, so naturally, you comment on how you voted. See how it works?

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Or you comment on why those are not the only valid options, which they are not.

Sunbelt said:

My not liking your response has nothing to do with your irrelevance. These are fair questions, and need to be addressed. You're a political correctness drone. From what I've seen so far, you are anywhere from "slightly liberal" to "slightly radical liberal".

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:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo

Me a "political correctness drone"? Now THAT is funny! Stop by the Immigration section of the DP and view my posts there for just one small example of how wrong you are. lol

*wipes tears of laughter from face* hehe..me a political correctness drone

As for my lean, read what it says in that little section under my name next to "lean". I'm an Independent. I adhere to no left or right ideaology. I make up my own mind on issues and anyone around these forums that know me can vouche for that.

And no, your poll question is not a fair question in the context of the poll options you gave. A fair poll question at least has the correct answer in it if there is one, a wide range of possible things to choose from if there isn't. And in this case your question has a clear correct answer. And neither of the choices that you put up are it. BTW, if I was a "political correctness drone" then I would be calling anti-abortionists "pro-life" or "anti-choice" depending on which side of the aisle I am on.

Now lets examine your words from your poll options to show you why both of them (and you) are wrong...

Pro-Life and Anti-Choice.

Pro ~ Meaning "for" something. or In favor of something.

Anti ~ To be against something.

Life ~ in basic terminology, any organic thing that is alive.

Choice ~ The ability to choose between one thing or another thing or multiple things.

By the above definitions this conclude that:

Pro-Life ~ Being in favor of any organic thing that is alive.

Anti-Choice ~ To be against the ability to choose between one thing or another thing or multiple things.

Now obviously not all anti-abortionists are pro-life for the simple fact that there are some that want to keep the death penalty and/or are for a particular war where people get killed. They may also be quite happy at eating steak and are not vegetarians/vegans.

On the flip side of that you have pro-choicers that are against abortion on a personal level but believe that politically a person should have a choice based upon thier own set of beliefs. Hence why they are called "pro-choicers" instead of "pro-abortion".

This shows that the term "Pro-Life" does not conform to the standards of being against abortion.

Now for Anti-Choice, why I have to explain this one is quite beyond belief but obviously it is needed for you.

There isn't one single person on either the right side or the left side of this issue that believe's that no one should have a choice in anything and everything. There isn't one single anti-abortionist that believes that no one should not be able to make any type of choice what so ever. Yes they may wish to take the choice of having an abortion or not away from women but that does not mean that they want to take away peoples choices altogether. Which is exactly what "anti-choice" means.

In conclusion your poll options are not correct nor valid answers to the question at hand because no one is truely "pro-life" or "anti-choice".

Now you can continue with your partisan BS but in the end that's all that it is, BS. The correct terminology when refering to those that are against abortion is "anti-abortionist" not because of some polticial agenda or political correctness, but simply because of the definition of the words.

Black_Zawisza said:

The goal is absolutely to preserve life, but anti-choice policies are necessary to make that happen.

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RepubliCON Creedo: Preserve it until it's born. Then completely and without conscious, neglect it.

Top Cat said:

RepubliCON Creedo: Preserve it until it's born. Then completely and without conscious, neglect it.

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Actually, it's RepubliCAN Creedo: Preserve him/her until he/she is born, then fight off the tyrant liberals in order to preserve his/her right to pursue happiness.

Top Cat said:

RepubliCON Creedo: Preserve it until it's born. Then completely and without conscious, neglect it.

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this is unadulterated hogwash... it's simply a lie.... a willfully stated falsehood....etc..etc..etc.
it is better to stay silent than publicize blatant falsehoods.


as an aside.. i've heard numerous people here say that no one is pro-abortion.. not one pro-choicer is in favor of abortion...etc.
that is demonstrably false.... every single woman who consents to an abortion is, by definition, pro-abortion... even a pro-life woman who consent to an abortion is pro-abortion.

Thrilla said:

as an aside.. i've heard numerous people here say that no one is pro-abortion.. not one pro-choicer is in favor of abortion...etc.
that is demonstrably false.... every single woman who consents to an abortion is, by definition, pro-abortion... even a pro-life woman who consent to an abortion is pro-abortion.

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No, they're pro-choice. Pro-abortion would mean that you want *EVERY* pregnancy to end in abortion, which nobody is. Pro-choice means you want a woman to have a choice.

That's your own definition.

What makes sense to me is using the terms preferred by both sides--"pro-life" and "pro-choice."

nota bene said:

That's your own definition.

What makes sense to me is using the terms preferred by both sides--"pro-life" and "pro-choice."

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That's not my own definition. It's what the words mean.

Cephus said:

That's not my own definition. It's what the words mean.

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None of the dictionary entries cited below defines "pro-abortion" as"mean[ing] that you want *EVERY* pregnancy to end in abortion."

pro-a·bor·tion (pr-bôrshn)
adj.
Favoring or supporting legalized abortion.

pro-abortion - definition of pro-abortion by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

pro-abortion

adjective
Favoring or supporting legalized abortion.

pro-abortion - Definition of pro-abortion


pro·a·bor·tion
 
adjective
pro-choice.

Pro-abortion | Define Pro-abortion at Dictionary.com

Sunbelt said:

Actually, it's RepubliCAN Creedo: Preserve him/her until he/she is born, then fight off the tyrant liberals in order to preserve his/her right to pursue happiness.

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Unless they're gay. Then their happiness is of no consequence.

Abortion is not a conservative, liberal, progressive or libertarian issue. However, people who are sheep allow the media and politicians to declare it is.

Sunbelt said:

Actually, it's RepubliCAN'T Creedo: Preserve him/her until he/she is born, then fight off the tyrant liberals in order to completely disregard his welfare.

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Fixed that for you.

Thrilla said:

this is unadulterated hogwash... it's simply a lie.... a willfully stated falsehood....etc..etc..etc.

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No it is not. Republicans vote against social programs pretty much all the time. To suggest otherwise is delusional.

Sunbelt said:

Are conservatives anti-choice, or are we truly about preserving life? Which one is it? Let's get quibbling.

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Are you serious...obviously not.

If you really wanted to make your position clear you might have simply stated "Conservatives are Anti-choice and Pro-Life" This is a useless poll, and instead is a commentary.

Both the options are loaded and blatantly biased...this coming from a Pro Choice advocate.

Seriously, if you want to help your own side in this issue....just freakin' stop typing.

Speaking in generalities here...

Republicans view the fetus as a child and as such vested in rights. Republican's believe that a legitimate role of the state is the protection of those that can not protect themselves (for example, you don't see Republicans arguing that Parents should be able to truly physically abuse their kids without government involvement [not talking about a swat on the butt here]). As such, in their view the issue is whether or not the state should intervene in the case of a mother choosing to kill a child. As such, their position absolutely is "pro-life" not "anti-choice". To state they were anti-choice one would need to suggest those who are for child protection laws are "anti-choice" because they disallow a parents right to choose how to discpline their child. Based on the view point of the issue of Republicans, "pro-life" is the more accurate term to reflect what they ACTUALLY think.

Similarly.

Democrats view the fetus as something not yet able to be considered a child and not able to have the full rights and privledges that a person gets. As such, its "rights" and the need for the government to protect them falls beneath the rights of the woman with regards to what does or doesn't happen to her body. As such, based on their view of the situation, it is more accurate to call them "pro-choice" rather than "anti-life". They are not against the notion of life, but rather feel that there is no "right" to life on the part of the fetus because it has not gotten to the point where it would be vested with such rights. Based on their actual view point, "Pro-choice" is the more accurate term for Democrats.

nota bene said:

None of the dictionary entries cited below defines "pro-abortion" as"mean[ing] that you want *EVERY* pregnancy to end in abortion."

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Its a situation I think similar to when people suggest Republicans are "pro-war" and they try to suggest they're actually in favor of a strong national defense. Its a technically correct term that is used not because its technically correct but because it provides a somewhat dishonest connotation...such as suggesting the person is actually in favor of ABORTIONS and not simply in favor if it being legal or that someone is actually in favor of WAR and not simply in favor of actively persuing our national defense. If people who used "pro-abortion" actually came across as using it do to the literal definition of it and not as a cheap emotional political ploy then perhaps it wouldn't be reacted to in the fashion it typically is...however those same people rarely give any reason to buy the fact that they care about using the literal definitions of things.

Zyphlin said:

Speaking in generalities here...

Republicans view the fetus as a child and as such vested in rights. Republican's believe that a legitimate role of the state is the protection of those that can not protect themselves (for example, you don't see Republicans arguing that Parents should be able to truly physically abuse their kids without government involvement [not talking about a swat on the butt here]). As such, in their view the issue is whether or not the state should intervene in the case of a mother choosing to kill a child. As such, their position absolutely is "pro-life" not "anti-choice". To state they were anti-choice one would need to suggest those who are for child protection laws are "anti-choice" because they disallow a parents right to choose how to discpline their child. Based on the view point of the issue of Republicans, "pro-life" is the more accurate term to reflect what they ACTUALLY think.

Similarly.

Democrats view the fetus as something not yet able to be considered a child and not able to have the full rights and privledges that a person gets. As such, its "rights" and the need for the government to protect them falls beneath the rights of the woman with regards to what does or doesn't happen to her body. As such, based on their view of the situation, it is more accurate to call them "pro-choice" rather than "anti-life". They are not against the notion of life, but rather feel that there is no "right" to life on the part of the fetus because it has not gotten to the point where it would be vested with such rights. Based on their actual view point, "Pro-choice" is the more accurate term for Democrats.

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You're citing party platforms, not actually all voters for those political parties. Many Republican voters are pro-choice. If you explore back in time, the main reason Republican establishment in the 80s tried to keep the religious rightwing out foremost was not wanting to commit the Republican Party to being "pro-life."