View Poll Results: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

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  • Yes, he can!

    7 43.75%
  • No, only Congress has these enumerated powers

    9 56.25%
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Thread: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

  1. #61
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Is this suppose to be a rebuttle? Hahahahahah
    No, it wasn't supposed to be a "rebuttle."
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Just did. See post above.
    I didn't say they didn't mention it. They didn't rule based on it.


    Didn't say that. They didn't rule that.
    Yes, you did:

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Which was the issue in Marbury v. Madison - which not only established judicial review, but also, remember, ruled that the executive branch need not follow a law it also believed was unconstitutional!
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #63
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    So to bring this full circle, the executive branch can ignore enforcement of laws based on its opinion.

  4. #64
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I didn't say they didn't mention it. They didn't rule based on it.
    They DID rule that the JUDICIARY could declare laws unconstitutional, and the reason was that judges take an oath.

    They DID NOT rule that presidents have the same power because of the oath. I am the one saying that (though other sources support me).

    Yes, you did:
    "Which was the issue in Marbury v. Madison - which not only established judicial review, but also, remember, ruled that the executive branch need not follow a law it also believed was unconstitutional!"

    Note that the term "executive branch" means both the President and his officers, such as the Secretary of State.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  5. #65
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Which brings the entire conversation back to the opening question: "Can the President veto/repal a law?"

    Not directly, but they can issue a statement that "its unconstitutional, therefore I'm not going to enforce it", which in the end means its not a law.

  6. #66
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Which brings the entire conversation back to the opening question: "Can the President veto/repal a law?"

    Not directly, but they can issue a statement that "its unconstitutional, therefore I'm not going to enforce it", which in the end means its not a law.
    Well, it's still a law, and it might still be enforced. The President isn't the only person who enforces laws. And, of course, the whole mess would end up in court, and the courts would decide anyway.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  7. #67
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Well, it's still a law, and it might still be enforced. The President isn't the only person who enforces laws. And, of course, the whole mess would end up in court, and the courts would decide anyway.
    Only the federal government can enforce federal law, as evidenced by the administrations argument against individual states enforcing immigration law.

    So, yes, if the federal government doesn't enforce the law, then its as good as toilet paper.

    Has the lack of enforcement of a federal law ever been challenged, or challenged successfully, in the courts?

  8. #68
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    They DID rule that the JUDICIARY could declare laws unconstitutional, and the reason was that judges take an oath.
    Dude.

    No, they didn't.

    They said judicial review was part of the judicial power. They didn't the say the oath gave them that power. They said -- in dicta -- that the oath wouldn't make sense if they didn't have the power. They didn't say that the oath was the reason they had the power.


    They DID NOT rule that presidents have the same power because of the oath. I am the one saying that (though other sources support me).
    I never said they did.


    Note that the term "executive branch" means both the President and his officers, such as the Secretary of State.
    So what? You've confused yourself. Go back and read my posts.

    Insofar as you may be trying to argue that you never said they ruled the President may disregard laws, but "the executive branch" -- the only way you save yourself if you're arguing that the President isn't part of the executive branch. But you precluded yourself from that, specifically, right here in what I quoted.

    You said they ruled something they didn't rule. Plain as that.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  9. #69
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Only the federal government can enforce federal law, as evidenced by the administrations argument against individual states enforcing immigration law.

    So, yes, if the federal government doesn't enforce the law, then its as good as toilet paper.
    The President isn't "the federal government" though. Depending on the law, there might be independent agencies, federal courts, etc. that could act even if the President came out and ordered all enforcement of this law to cease.

    Has the lack of enforcement of a federal law ever been challenged, or challenged successfully, in the courts?
    Well, you're the one who brought up the writ of mandamus....
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  10. #70
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    Re: Can the President veto or repeal a law?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The President isn't "the federal government" though. Depending on the law, there might be independent agencies, federal courts, etc. that could act even if the President came out and ordered all enforcement of this law to cease.

    Well, you're the one who brought up the writ of mandamus....

    For the context of the health insurance law, the agencies who would police it( IRS & HHS ) aren't independent.

    And no, I did not bring up writ of mandamus.

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