View Poll Results: Poll on where you stand on abortion in relation to women

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  • I favor forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    12 19.35%
  • I oppose forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    43 69.35%
  • IDK/Other

    7 11.29%
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Thread: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

  1. #61
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    If we're on board the Titanic, would you save the life of a child or that of a grown woman? How do you justify a value system that cherishes the life of the mother over that of her children?
    This scenario is far different.

    We're talking about a pregnant woman who's put in the scenario where due to complications it's either her life or her child's.

    Different story entirely, so dismissed.

  2. #62
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I believe abortion is murder unless the pregnancy puts the woman's life at risk. That being the case, it's a tragedy. Never did I say the life of an innocent child is worth more than a grown adult.

    The life of the unborn is worth more than the woman's selfish whim to kill her child. However, when her very life, during said complication, is put in that scenario, the scales are different. Abortion is murder unless the mother's life is directly at risk, imo.
    So I guess the entire abortion debate is based on personal preference. A life is a life. If you believe abortion is murder, then it is murder through and through whether or not you wish to view it as such in the course of a complicated pregnancy.

  3. #63
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    brb going to make another abortion thread


    but really, women should have the right to choose, it is there bodies.

  4. #64
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    This scenario is far different.

    We're talking about a pregnant woman who's put in the scenario where due to complications it's either her life or her child's.

    Different story entirely, so dismissed.
    I wouldn't say so. I'm trying to measure your value of life. If you believe a grown adult (woman) is more valuable than that of the unborn, then it's only logical you would make the same consideration for a child. Since, after all, the anti-abortion camp is quick to equalize the value of the unborn with that of the young children.

  5. #65
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    You could say so, Yes. There's also so many loopholes to consider not to mention the form of punishment that would be applied if abortion was ever deemed "murder". Again, I'm viewing things more from a personal belief aspect as opposed to a legal one.
    Fine. But personal preferences shouldn't dictate legal statutes.

  6. #66
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    To be a pure pro-lifer you must declare:
    1. Women have no say over the biological parentage of their children. This is singularly determined by the man.
    2. Women have no right to have a father in her children's life.
    3. That a man has an inherent right to physically force women to have children against her will.

    That is the pure "pro-life" stance.
    No, joko, those are the consequences of the pure pro-life stance.

    The only things you need to believe in order to hold the pro-life stance:
    1. Unborn children are living human beings, and thus have the right to life.
    2. The right to life takes precedence over all other rights except another person's right to life.


    Both reasonable moral premises. Combine that with deontological ethics-- the idea that actions are right or wrong according to rules, regardless of consequences-- and you have a system in which no matter how much harm the unwanted pregnancy inflicts upon the victim, unless it is necessary to preserve her right to life, the termination of that unborn child is an unjustifiable wrongful act. And if you consider the unborn child to be morally relevant at all, one must simply accept that the harm done to it by abortion is greater than the harm done to the woman.

    Of course, I don't share those premises... which is why I am staunchly pro-choice.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    So I guess the entire abortion debate is based on personal preference. A life is a life. If you believe abortion is murder, then it is murder through and through whether or not you wish to view it as such in the course of a complicated pregnancy.
    Abortion is murder if it is killed because of the woman's whims. Where do you get off saying it's always murder? If the woman is put in a truly life-threatening scenario, that changes things quite a bit.

    But since you're using that logic, I suppose shooting people is murder? In a way, just shooting someone at a whim is murder, but if it's your life or the other's life, and you must pull the trigger to survive, it is no longer murder. It's not the unborn's fault, but the choic of the mother to survive the dire complication.

  8. #68
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Fine. But personal preferences shouldn't dictate legal statutes.
    Isn't that a matter of your personal preferences? I don't think your personal preferences should restrict the laws that I am allowed to pass.

  9. #69
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Isn't that a matter of your personal preferences? I don't think your personal preferences should restrict the laws that I am allowed to pass.
    The right of all women to decide what to do with their own bodies is not my personal preference. It's an aspect of human rights.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Abortion is murder if it is killed because of the woman's whims. Where do you get off saying it's always murder? If the woman is put in a truly life-threatening scenario, that changes things quite a bit.

    But since you're using that logic, I suppose shooting people is murder? In a way, just shooting someone at a whim is murder, but if it's your life or the other's life, and you must pull the trigger to survive, it is no longer murder. It's not the unborn's fault, but the choic of the mother to survive the dire complication.
    If we look at it as if we're discussing murder in the legal sense, it would qualify as either 1st or 2nd degree murder. There's enough evidence ahead of time to determine a birth will greatly lead to complications, giving the mother and doctor the premeditated option to kill unjustly. Of course, murder and killing "unjustly" is up to the interpretation of governments. Hitler didn't "murder" Jews and Stalin didn't "murder" Ukrainians because it was legal at the time, under their jurisdictions. But to the rational mind, it is murder.

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