View Poll Results: Poll on where you stand on abortion in relation to women

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  • I favor forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    12 19.35%
  • I oppose forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    43 69.35%
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Thread: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

  1. #131
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    ...snip...


    Edit: And I disagree with your statement "We have precisely that...right now."
    You said this "And I have no desire for a utopia created to meet my individual needs, but rather a general framework that allows for individuals to build their own personal version of utopia, while restraining them from methods/actions that would endanger that option for other individuals."

    I see this as the whole point of Roe vs. Wade...it is a general framework that allows for individual freedom and has no aspect that allows for the endangerment of others.
    Basically...it lets everyone involved maintain the freedoms they enjoy without interfering with anyone elses.

  2. #132
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes.

    The state of NY had no problem getting my wife's medical records of the miscarriage from the nurses station to make their determination, given that the state requires the investigation.



    I'm not sure what you think a miscarriage entails, but as the hospital had to remove the ZEF from my wife and she nearly bled to death in the process, I there's little more a cavity search would discover. Everything that could have been examined in a cavity search was already examined (and stitched) in removing the ZEF.
    Also remove the after birth (Placenta).

    So what your saying, among other things, is 1.) pregnancy can be life threatening and 2.) there was a criminal investigation of the miscarriage to determine if charges should be brought against your wife and/or doctor(s)?

  3. #133
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes.

    The state of NY had no problem getting my wife's medical records of the miscarriage from the nurses station to make their determination, given that the state requires the investigation.



    I'm not sure what you think a miscarriage entails, but as the hospital had to remove the ZEF from my wife and she nearly bled to death in the process, I there's little more a cavity search would discover. Everything that could have been examined in a cavity search was already examined (and stitched) in removing the ZEF.
    Most miscarriages take place away from a hospital and most women who miscarry before 10 weeks can do so safely without a DNC or medical intervention.

  4. #134
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    You said this "And I have no desire for a utopia created to meet my individual needs, but rather a general framework that allows for individuals to build their own personal version of utopia, while restraining them from methods/actions that would endanger that option for other individuals."

    I see this as the whole point of Roe vs. Wade...it is a general framework that allows for individual freedom and has no aspect that allows for the endangerment of others.
    Basically...it lets everyone involved maintain the freedoms they enjoy without interfering with anyone else’s.
    I was actually speaking in more general terms, not specifically about abortion laws…Which means I was straying a bit from the main topic, I suppose.

    But.
    What if you think it does interfere with another person’s rights? The right that an unborn child has to life, for example…
    Then, it would seem, Roe vs. Wade violates that statement I made.

    That decision, like most involving abortion, hinges on what point in the process of reproduction you believe a potential human should be considered “a life” and thus protected. If ever.

    Most of us, I think, don’t consider partial-birth abortions acceptable, outside such being the only option to save the mother. Some of us not even then, I suppose.

    But everything else in between that and conception is apparently fair game, in general.

    And so…the argument continues.
    Education.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I was actually speaking in more general terms, not specifically about abortion laws…Which means I was straying a bit from the main topic, I suppose.

    Understood


    But.
    What if you think it does interfere with another person’s rights? The right that an unborn child has to life, for example…
    Then, it would seem, Roe vs. Wade violates that statement I made.

    Then you disagree with the law, as you are welcome to...yet it is the law nonetheless.


    That decision, like most involving abortion, hinges on what point in the process of reproduction you believe a potential human should be considered “a life” and thus protected. If ever.

    No, it does not...there is nothing to tell you your belief must be changed to conform to said law.


    Most of us, I think, don’t consider partial-birth abortions acceptable, outside such being the only option to save the mother. Some of us not even then, I suppose.

    But everything else in between that and conception is apparently fair game, in general.

    And so…the argument continues.
    Agreed...it continues...

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Other -

    I am opposed to late-term abortions, when the fetus is able to develop emotional attachments (as a result of this, abortion will erase these attachments and the fetus will cease to exist, which is where it becomes a moral issue).

    I am in favor of earlier abortions, when the fetus is unable to form such attachments. This accounts for about 97% of all abortions.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Then you disagree with the law, as you are welcome to...yet it is the law nonetheless.
    True.
    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    No, it does not...there is nothing to tell you your belief must be changed to conform to said law.
    I should have been clearer…

    I meant that, on a personal level, such is the process towards making a decision.

    The law, as currently formatted, is still the law – until or if it changes…

    Which is really the whole point of abortion debates, in a way – “do you agree with the current law, and if not, what would you prefer.”
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    Other -

    I am opposed to late-term abortions, when the fetus is able to develop emotional attachments (as a result of this, abortion will erase these attachments and the fetus will cease to exist, which is where it becomes a moral issue).

    I am in favor of earlier abortions, when the fetus is unable to form such attachments. This accounts for about 97% of all abortions.
    I favor aborting as soon as the gender can be determined to be male. The world would be a so much better place.

    .

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    I favor aborting as soon as the gender can be determined to be male. The world would be a so much better place.

    .
    That actually is increasingly an abortion issue. In the East, where abortions legal, most opt for male children. Increasingly, but not to the same degree, there is a slight leaning towards girls.

    Gender and race selection abortions is a growing topic of dispute even among pro-choicers. Not as a legal issue, but an ethical one. To just keep aborting until she/they get what they want.

  10. #140
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Abortion is a moral issue. It is between a woman (and her mate) and God. The moral standard is always going to be a greater standard than the legal standard (ie; divorce, adultery, lust, greed are all moral issues; none are illegal). The idea that we can legislate morality is not only wrong thinking, it is a form of tyranny (and thus immoral, in and of itself, in a free society).

    The abortion issue takes far, far too much political resource, and at the end of the day is a waste of time. Does anyone really believe the greatest problem facing America today is abortion? Yet, it seems to be the #1 litmus test applied to political candidates and judge appointments. Talk about being obsessed with re-arranging the deck chairs.

    I have absolutely no patience for this issue. I wish it would just go away so that we can argue about things that matter.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 02-07-12 at 11:25 PM.

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