View Poll Results: Poll on where you stand on abortion in relation to women

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  • I favor forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    12 19.35%
  • I oppose forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    43 69.35%
  • IDK/Other

    7 11.29%
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Thread: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

  1. #121
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing this fact. Seems to me the debate revolves around when said Zygote/fetus/embryo has developed
    enough to be classified as a human being. Life is somewhat irrelevant in this, as every cell we have, and every creature we eat is alive. yet we either shed millions, or slaughter them when needed. The criteria is obviously Humanity...which requires a human brain...we get those around month 5-6.
    Joko apparently thinks it's drivel.

    I think humanity should stretch from the very beginning of your development, to the very end. Being physically a developing human does not begin once born. No, science shows that the very beginning of the "animal" known as "human" begins when sperm meets egg.

    Then again, "humanity" is a concept created by humans. No, to be "human" is to be in ANY part of human development. To be human is to be a child. To be human is to be a zygote. To be human is to be an adult. To be a human is to be in the womb for 5 months. To be a human is to be 90-years-old. Etc...

  2. #122
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    In other words...you think we should deny better in search of perfection {in your mind)...this mindset prevents advancement, and always has. Granted, current laws are not perfect, and in fact cannot possibly be to everyone, but if we want society we must accept compromise, that is simply our reality.
    Negative.

    It is my opinion that:

    Firstly, however excessively detailed legislation is made, it simply cannot foresee all possible situations, and inevitably will cause issues like the one I responded to.

    Secondly, that excessively detailed legislation has the opposite effect you are suggesting that it stifles rather than supports advancement, by restricting activities to a pre-determined path.

    Thirdly, that not only are current laws imperfect and as a result problematic, but that the current path most of the world is on that of creating increasingly complex laws to govern more and more aspects of individuals lives is counter to the proper direction (again IMO) things should be taking.
    Education.

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  3. #123
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Negative.

    It is my opinion that:

    Firstly, however excessively detailed legislation is made, it simply cannot foresee all possible situations, and inevitably will cause issues like the one I responded to.

    Secondly, that excessively detailed legislation has the opposite effect you are suggesting – that it stifles rather than supports advancement, by restricting activities to a pre-determined path.

    Thirdly, that not only are current laws imperfect and as a result problematic, but that the current path most of the world is on – that of creating increasingly complex laws to govern more and more aspects of individuals lives – is counter to the proper direction (again IMO) things should be taking.
    Okay then...How do suggest we as a species/civilization manage several Billion individuals?

    Or, to simplify, how would you recommend (without laws) we somehow create a utopia that meets your individual needs without stomping on mine, for several million individuals?

    I can agree our society is flawed, and imperfect...hell I sometimes find it disgusting. Yet, this is what we have, and to pretend it is not just seems to me rather naive.

    To expect everyone else to bow down before my opinion is also...unrealistic, and possibly cruel.



    we are forced to live and let live, or kill each other.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I personally, do not think myself capable or worthy of telling the other millions what to do. Instead I have come to accept my place in this republic, and abide by what laws we have. I will say however, that if someone decided to force my wife into a situation that compromised her happiness...I would react appropriately, and likely regret it eventually.
    I'm with you on that. messing with my woman? A horrifically bad decision for someone to make.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Science agrees with me. What agrees with you?
    I believe the exact scientific terminology is not "baby," "child," "human," or "person."

    The "scientific" term is "the embryo of the species homo sapien."

  6. #126
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Where I stand is aside, while the woman chooses what is done with her body.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Okay then...How do suggest we as a species/civilization manage several Billion individuals?

    Or, to simplify, how would you recommend (without laws) we somehow create a utopia that meets your individual needs without stomping on mine, for several million individuals?

    I can agree our society is flawed, and imperfect...hell I sometimes find it disgusting. Yet, this is what we have, and to pretend it is not just seems to me rather naive.

    To expect everyone else to bow down before my opinion is also...unrealistic, and possibly cruel.



    we are forced to live and let live, or kill each other.
    It's not that I'm suggesting we do without laws.

    More that I think the laws we've been passing are too specific.

    And I have no desire for a utopia created to meet my individual needs, but rather a general framework that allows for individuals to build their own personal version of utopia, while restraining them from methods/actions that would endanger that option for other individuals.

    I’m not sure, but I suspect that in multiple cases around the country (and most likely the world) there are laws that specifically address a certain action or several, and which are unnecessary – said action already being illegal, albeit perhaps not directly, under a previous law.

    Unnecessary legislation/laws, mainly passed (IMO) so that politicians can say “I was part of this, vote me back into office”, or in short, “I did something”.

    And…stuff.
    Education.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It's not that I'm suggesting we do without laws.

    Then, perhaps you might accept them, and at least accept the reality of them.


    More that I think the laws we've been passing are too specific.

    Yet, they are societal law you can disagree with them, but hey are still society in action.

    And I have no desire for a utopia created to meet my individual needs, but rather a general framework that allows for individuals to build their own personal version of utopia, while restraining them from methods/actions that would endanger that option for other individuals.

    We have precisely that...right now

    I’m not sure, but I suspect that in multiple cases around the country (and most likely the world) there are laws that specifically address a certain action or several, and which are unnecessary – said action already being illegal, albeit perhaps not directly, under a previous law.

    Much like our system...

    Unnecessary legislation/laws, mainly passed (IMO) so that politicians can say “I was part of this, vote me back into office”, or in short, “I did something”.

    And…stuff.

    So...we should defy law...because we don't agree with it?

  9. #129
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post

    So...we should defy law...because we don't agree with it?
    No.

    We should change it.

    Repeal, replace, rewrite, ect.

    I'm not saying this would be easy or even possible given some of the constraints currently emplaced...

    But that's what I think should be done...


    Edit: And I disagree with your statement "We have precisely that...right now."
    Last edited by The Mark; 02-06-12 at 11:19 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Paperwork? You mean the medical records which are protected under the privacy clause of the 4th Amendment?
    Yes.

    The state of NY had no problem getting my wife's medical records of the miscarriage from the nurses station to make their determination, given that the state requires the investigation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Wow. No offense, but under your proposal one of two things will have to happen. Either we can maintain lax investigative procedures such as the one which faced your wife (and in which case, there will definitely be a sudden increase in the number of "miscarriages" across the country), or we can impose more intrusive investigative procedures that look at more than just paperwork. How would you like it if your wife was subjected to a cavity search in order to rule out a self-induced abortion?
    I'm not sure what you think a miscarriage entails, but as the hospital had to remove the ZEF from my wife and she nearly bled to death in the process, I there's little more a cavity search would discover. Everything that could have been examined in a cavity search was already examined (and stitched) in removing the ZEF.

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