View Poll Results: Poll on where you stand on abortion in relation to women

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  • I favor forcing women to have children against her wishes.

    12 19.35%
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    43 69.35%
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Thread: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

  1. #91
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I understand. However, you're incorrect:

    [FONT="]"Child" 1 and "baby" 1 have pre-birth uses.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]A fetus is a "child" 2 and a "baby" 2 is a "child", thus we can call a fetus a "baby" 3.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]Legally a "child" 4 is one's natural offspring, which is what a pregnant woman carries.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]So, a pregnant woman carries her "child", her "unborn child", her "unborn baby".
    This makes her a "parent", specifically, a “mother”.[/FONT]

    [FONT="] [/FONT]

    "Organism" = "a living being".
    Human DNA = "human".
    "Organism" + Human DNA = "A Human Being".


    The unborn is a "child". Anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.
    You've destroyed your own argument, unless you wish to consider sperm "A Human Being" given that it is a living organism possessing human DNA. That won't surprise me. The same people who fought against legalized abortion also fought against giving women access to contraceptives years earlier. No wonder Santorum, Huntsman, and Romney have 7 kids. They believe they'll be struck down like Onan for spilling their seed.

  2. #92
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    To claim that is "a child" is truly an absurdity. No different that to claim a condom kills half a child just like if a person cut a newborn baby in half is anything but absurd.
    More like prevents a potential child, imo.

    I don't understand the latter part of that sentence.

  3. #93
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    So every case of a mother who must choose an abortion to save her life will subsequently (and justly, in your opinion) be investigated for possible child murder?
    The investigation would determine the nature of the homicide, yes. Abortions performed in hospitals in countries such as Brazil which have very strict abortion laws are short and sweet, a simple matter of a civil rep. looking over some paperwork.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And a woman who has just experienced a traumatic miscarriage is also subject to an investigation for possible child murder? You're really willing to put these women through a hellish investigation/trial to determine or file possible murder charges?
    Trial?

    I think you've been watching to much CSI.

    Investigation =/= trial.

    Yes a miscarriage should be investigated. Of course it should. You think this doesn't already happen today? When my wife had a miscarrage in NY in 2002, the state automaticaly performed an investigation to determin the age of the ZEF. As it was under the cut-off for abortion, the state did not continue it's investigation to determine the cause.

    Trial. Pft whatever. There's no trial. It's a designated medical professional looking over paperwork. My wife and I were asked a few questions, it took about 5 minutes, if that.

  4. #94
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You've destroyed your own argument, unless you wish to consider sperm "A Human Being" given that it is a living organism possessing human DNA. That won't surprise me. The same people who fought against legalized abortion also fought against giving women access to contraceptives years earlier. No wonder Santorum, Huntsman, and Romney have 7 kids. They believe they'll be struck down like Onan for spilling their seed.
    I don't see where Jerry said the sperm is a human being. Is takes two elements to create the zygote, beginning of the developing human: sperm and egg.

    An egg by itself is not a human. Same with the sperm.

  5. #95
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I guess that's one way of looking at it. The statement, "she is pregnant with child" also reinforces this..
    Is this a "human child?"



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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Is this a "human child?"


    A developing human, imo.

    A good question would be to try and define when the unborn can be deemed a "child."

    Then again, perhaps we should not let size blind us to what it is, and what it will become if not hindered.

  7. #97
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I don't see where Jerry said the sperm is a human being. Is takes two elements to create the zygote, beginning of the developing human: sperm and egg.

    An egg by itself is not a human. Same with the sperm.
    Read his post. He said an organism + human DNA = "A human being"

    He failed to realize a sperm is a living organism with human DNA.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You've destroyed your own argument, unless you wish to consider sperm "A Human Being" given that it is a living organism possessing human DNA.
    The simple fact that sperm can not divide or reproduce tells you that they are not an organism.

  9. #99
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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I don't see where Jerry said the sperm is a human being. Is takes two elements to create the zygote, beginning of the developing human: sperm and egg.

    An egg by itself is not a human. Same with the sperm.
    No, he didn't. But he is false in claiming that human development begins with a fertilized egg. It begins with the development of the sperm and the female egg.

    Oh, that's right, sperm and eggs aren't required. The FIRST step in form a child is when the stork implants a zygote in the woman. THAT is how a new life FIRST begins. Or so he claims. And that's absurd.

    EVERY time a pregnancy is avoided, the unthinkable prevention of a child being born occurs. How can you so hate children as to prevent their even having a chance of having a life? (rhetorical)
    Lucky for him that his father wasn't such an evil man as to have used a condom. Otherwise Jerry wouldn't exist. His life potential DESTROYED! Pure evil if his father had done so. Or if her mother had been so rabid a baby hater as to be on the pill.

    After "pro-life" and religions FINALLY lost that argument with almost everyone, they just redefined when life starts. It NO LONGER starts with sperm and eggs. They don't exist anymore and have NOTHING to do with the origins of human life and babies according to them. NOW the first step is a fertilized embryo. Never mind that contraceptions stop 1000+ times more babies have a right to exist than abortions.

    So this isn't about babies having a right to exist. Not since contraceptives were dropped from the debate.

    There is now the candidate Santorum that has reverted to the contraceptions are wrong and should be prevented including by government. At least he has some integrity in his "ideology on behalf of babies right to come into this world."
    Last edited by joko104; 02-06-12 at 03:13 PM.

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    Re: Where you stand on abortion in relation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You are absolutely wrong. A fertilized human embryro in a petri dish isn't a child. In fact, it is absurd to claim it is a child and for nearly all of those - 99+% - it will never be capable of becoming child no matter what is done.

    To claim that is "a child" is truly an absurdity. No different that to claim a condom kills half a child just like if a person cut a newborn baby in half is anything but absurd.
    Yes, it is.


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