View Poll Results: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

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  • Yes

    41 75.93%
  • No

    4 7.41%
  • Maybe

    7 12.96%
  • Other

    2 3.70%
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Thread: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

  1. #121
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Yes. If you know I have a gun you would think twice before attacking me with yours.
    And why is that Americans thought the soviets wanted to take over the USA? What would they do it anyway?
    I don't think the U.S. government was ever worried about a soviet take over. They were worried and rightly so from soviet hard liners that a surprise nuclear attack before we could launch a significant amount of our own would destroy the U.S. and then the soviets would be able to basically run the rest of the planet. We also got into a pissing contest over Cuba that damn nearly ended it all.

  2. #122
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Name a country that has nuclear weapons that has been attacked.... anyone? I am not talking about a terrorist attack either, I am talking about a full blown invasion deal. So, yes, it has obviously been a deterent. But, are there leaders and enough people within a country that may not give a ****? Iran and NK are the most obvious choices where that scenario could happen. Yes, if they use them it means their demise. And, when those countries lanch, they know they are launching their own demise. Sometimes you have to think about it, if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

    Other points I saw in this thread about Iran or some other country building them, not to use them but to sell them. (or both) That is a very real scenario. Although they are fooling themselves if they think they can claim plausable deniability on that. Well, unless our intelligence becomes such a wreck that we really cannot find out who..di... yeah, we got problems.

    There is also the notion that certain POTUSES may become crippled with what to do. Obama might just be such a POTUS. Carter most definetly was. The Iran mess he got us into back in 79... What certain other countries such as Iran need to feel certain of is that they will not be able to carry out such a sale/attack and cause great harm to us, Israel etc etc. They might not mind ending their own country so long as they feel they have a good chance at pulling it off. So long as we play patty cake with these countries, they are going to feel that way. We can't give the motivation that they can get away with it. that is the key. MAD doesn't work with them.

  3. #123
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    Carter most definetly was. The Iran mess he got us into back in 79... What certain other countries such
    Were you there at the time reading about it in headline news or is this some hindsight description you're using? Back then there was no Rapid Deployment. It was the Iran situation that pushed US into making it a reality. Carter did respond with a small strike force and the mission failed miserably. The other option would have been a full scale invasion, something no one wanted.

  4. #124
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I made one mention of fighting against them. All of that statement was about living with and beside practicers of Islam for over a year. You read what you wanted to read and then stopped. So, by your calculation, a person only needs to read a book to be an expert in a field? That is the true "LOL" of this whole debate. I would take a person's opinion that has been there, done that 10 times out of 10 over some idiot who thinks a piece of paper enables him to set policy and craft a logical theory. Your assumption that I have not read one of his books is also a true "LOL". I would suggest you get off Walts jock and try observing a different perspective besides one Harvard elite's pov.
    Dude, I brought up his arguments. You responded by calling him as a person into question rather than addressing the arguments. That confirms that you aren't confident in your ability to talk about this topic intellectually. If you're willing to discuss arguments and not people as I did with other posters who felt confident enough in themselves intellectually to do so without attacking Walt as a person, then we can do that.

    Once again, a person who underestimates the ability of the human mind to devolve into a hate consumed state. The same was said of the Third Reich. You like to read, I suggest you read about that. No one wanted to believe that a human being, much less a group of human beings, would ever engage in the genocide and systematic eradication of a group of people simply because of their race. Reports came from intelligence sources all the time about "work" camps the Germans were running. No one wanted to believe it. We all know the outcome of that. No one wanted to believe that someone would actually run a plane into one of our buildings. Even after it happened, people didn't want to believe it. Still to this day, people don't believe it. Don't underestimate the capability of a human being, especially one driven by an ideology, to destroy its fellow man in the name of that ideology. Its not "omg Islam is scary". It's the fact that we've seen the ability of our fellow man to hate, we've underestimated it before, and we don't need to do it again. You can continue to live in your nice, safe, American bubble though bro. I won't hate you for it.
    But what does this have to do with anything? I certainly believe people are capable of genocide considering that people have...wait for it...committed genocide. I also believe people are capable of committing other atrocities because...wait for it...they have. My arguments have nothing to do with underestimating humanity. They have to do with the fact that Iran behaves like a rational state interested in its survival. Can you counter that point or do you only feel safe bringing up red herrings?

  5. #125
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Dude, I brought up his arguments. You responded by calling him as a person into question rather than addressing the arguments. That confirms that you aren't confident in your ability to talk about this topic intellectually. If you're willing to discuss arguments and not people as I did with other posters who felt confident enough in themselves intellectually to do so without attacking Walt as a person, then we can do that.
    I'm not attacking Walt. I'm attacking you for thinking he is the end all, be all authority on foreign policy and nuclear weapons. You seem to have read one book and are insulted someone disagrees with you. If you would like to continue to debate the topic, I'm good with that. If you want to continue to play the game of weighing my experience in this portion of the world, with this type of person, and with the culture I speak of vs. your experience of reading a book while you were on the toilet, I'm done talking.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    But what does this have to do with anything? I certainly believe people are capable of genocide considering that people have...wait for it...committed genocide. I also believe people are capable of committing other atrocities because...wait for it...they have. My arguments have nothing to do with underestimating humanity. They have to do with the fact that Iran behaves like a rational state interested in its survival. Can you counter that point or do you only feel safe bringing up red herrings?
    So you acknowledge that people are capable of these things. So, whats the disconnect then? If idealogues are capable of genocide and atrocities, why wouldn't they be capable of launching a nuclear weapon purely out of hate for another country and culture? Especially an openly hostile and ideological country such as Iran. Their treatment of the Baha'i minority, homosexuals, and women suggest your claim of them being a "rational" state is the true red herring in this debate.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #126
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So you acknowledge that people are capable of these things. So, whats the disconnect then? If idealogues are capable of genocide and atrocities, why wouldn't they be capable of launching a nuclear weapon purely out of hate for another country and culture? Especially an openly hostile and ideological country such as Iran. Their treatment of the Baha'i minority, homosexuals, and women suggest your claim of them being a "rational" state is the true red herring in this debate.
    Come on. 150 years ago we weren't any better in our treatment of women or homosexuals and I shouldn't have to remind you of our treatment of slaves, which I don't believe Iran condones. Now that we're finally "enlightened" we're going to dump on anyone that isn't as enlightened and call them irrational?

  7. #127
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Come on. 150 years ago we weren't any better in our treatment of women or homosexuals and I shouldn't have to remind you of our treatment of slaves, which I don't believe Iran condones. Now that we're finally "enlightened" we're going to dump on anyone that isn't as enlightened and call them irrational?
    Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?-scarecrow-wizard-oz-jpg..........
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #128
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    It's sad a marine doesn't see the difference. I guess things have changed a lot in the Corps after 50 years - apparently for the worst.

  9. #129
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It's sad a marine doesn't see the difference. I guess things have changed a lot in the Corps after 50 years - apparently for the worst.
    A great response after an already weak and pointless post. Its funny how you elude to being a Marine 50 years ago yet you don't capitalize the title Marine (guess that wasn't a blasphemy in the "Old Corps" huh?), you disgrace the Marine Corps with a silly immature personal attack of a fellow Marine (if you are one), and you suggest that the Marine Corps is somehow now as good as when (if?) you were in it. I'd love to see some proof of your enlistment or commission in the Marine Corps. The bad part is, you will come up short regardless of whether you were in or not. If you weren't in, you're a poser, if you were, you still are because no Marine worth his salt would say what you did.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #130
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    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Well lets just put it this way.

    If my next door neighbour is a prick, who constantly lets his dog **** on my lawn, and I install a button in my house that destroys his, he'll keep that dog on a leash from there on in.

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