View Poll Results: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

Voters
54. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    41 75.93%
  • No

    4 7.41%
  • Maybe

    7 12.96%
  • Other

    2 3.70%
Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 154

Thread: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

  1. #101
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And yet, it never happened.
    Right, but that was not because of the politicians in Moscow, and Washington, but, rather, in spite of them. Most of the credit belongs to a Russian officer named Vasily Arkhipov.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    10-13-12 @ 02:26 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,556

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    It seems so strange to me that some still can not realize that nuclear weapons are the strongest deterrents...

    One example of not having a nuclear deterrent and paying the consequences is when Gaddafi of Libya gave up plans for a bomb and as a result was overthrown.

    Iran is very aware of this fact and is determined not to make the same mistake, which of course, and for good reason, is a disturbing thought.

  3. #103
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    2: You know that the moment you push that button millions of people are going to die by your hand. No sane person with a conscience can take that lightly.
    I'm not sure that applies to nukes any more than it applies to warfare in general. A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a million - how much is enough to make killing "insane"? Decision makers for thousands of years have started wars knowing full well that many, many people will die as a result of that decision. The button pusher has even less guilt because his people won't be dying like they would in a conventional war - only the enemy will die. Their are other issues the button pusher must face but this isn't one of them.

    Your #1 is a good point. World opinion is another. The US still has a certain stigma from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    (I've been over all those arguments and I still think we did the right thing.)
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-02-12 at 09:27 PM.

  4. #104
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Right, but that was not because of the politicians in Moscow, and Washington, but, rather, in spite of them. Most of the credit belongs to a Russian officer named Vasily Arkhipov.
    Well, no, it didn't happen in spite of them since they didn't order anyone to use nukes. It was averted in spite of the officers who ignored the obvious and were trigger happy. Better communication and decision-making is the solution to that problem.

  5. #105
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not sure that applies to nukes any more than it applies to warfare in general. A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a million - how much is enough to make killing "insane"? Decision makers for thousands of years have started wars knowing full well that many, many people will die as a result of that decision. The button pusher has even less guilt because his people won't be dying like they would in a conventional war - only the enemy will die. Their are other issues the button pusher must face but this isn't one of them.
    Its one thing to make war against someone when they are shooting at you. Its quite another to kill innocents. Granted the killing of innocents still happens and it is considered acceptable. But those killings are not usually done on purpose in the modern world. It is also spread out over days, weeks, months, even years. But to kill millions of innocents in an instant? That is a whole different ball game.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  6. #106
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Its one thing to make war against someone when they are shooting at you. Its quite another to kill innocents. Granted the killing of innocents still happens and it is considered acceptable. But those killings are not usually done on purpose in the modern world. It is also spread out over days, weeks, months, even years. But to kill millions of innocents in an instant? That is a whole different ball game.
    Again I point to the only times a bomb was used. Truman did pick cities with large military significance but knew full well that most casualties would be civilian. Standard bombing missions allowed much better targeting, meaning fewer civilian casualties, even though they were, obviously, much less effective to the overall war effort.

  7. #107
    Global Moderator
    Custom User Title
    LaughAtTheWorld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Seoul/Chicago
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:34 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,541

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    I'm really not pursuaded by these arguments that our nuclear arsenal makes us safer. The historical record strongly suggests the opposite.

    The only surefire way to avoid nuclear annihilation is global disarmament. This isn't some pie-in-the-sky fantasy. It also happens to be extremely popular. The United States government is actually the biggest roadblock to such measures.
    Take the history course again
    Once nukes are destroyed, wars that will make WWII look like a child's play will erupt
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

  8. #108
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,636

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    I'm really not pursuaded by these arguments that our nuclear arsenal makes us safer. The historical record strongly suggests the opposite.

    The only surefire way to avoid nuclear annihilation is global disarmament. This isn't some pie-in-the-sky fantasy. It also happens to be extremely popular. The United States government is actually the biggest roadblock to such measures.
    It's too bad most of the literature out there regarding nuclear control and foreign affairs seems to disagree with you. There is no going back. Once the Cold War ended, the universal opinion was that the limitation for access needs to occur, but we could not delude ourselves to thinking we could put the entire technology and possible use back in the box. Nothing has changed.

    Amazon.com: New Nuclear Nations: Consequences for U. S. Policy (9780876091531): Robert D. Blackwill, Albert Carnesale: Books

    http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/...uclear_nations
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 02-02-12 at 10:14 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #109
    Guru
    the_recruit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,176

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Again I point to the only times a bomb was used. Truman did pick cities with large military significance but knew full well that most casualties would be civilian. Standard bombing missions allowed much better targeting, meaning fewer civilian casualties, even though they were, obviously, much less effective to the overall war effort.


    Well, the only other option being considered at the time was an full-scale invasion of ground forces in Japan. It's widely assumed that total casualties would have been higher in that case, especially for the Americans about whom Truman was first and foremost concerned. Remember Japan didn't even surrender after the first one was dropped on Hiroshima. It wasn't until we dropped the second one and they came to believe we could mass produce a-bombs that they gave up.

    As churchill would have put it, "Dropping the bomb was the worst thing we could have done. Except for all the other options."

    Plus, its an excuse to test your new superweapon - grim but true. We'd probably be largely ignorant to a lot of the nasty radiation effects of nuclear weapons if no one had even dropped one on a populated city. Now we have a healthy respect for fallout.

  10. #110
    Sage
    EagleAye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Last Seen
    03-28-13 @ 09:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,697

    Re: Are nuclear weapons a deterrent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    It seems so strange to me that some still can not realize that nuclear weapons are the strongest deterrents...
    One example of not having a nuclear deterrent and paying the consequences is when Gaddafi of Libya gave up plans for a bomb and as a result was overthrown. Iran is very aware of this fact and is determined not to make the same mistake, which of course, and for good reason, is a disturbing thought.
    Gaddafi was overthrown because he was a ruthless dictator who, in the final tally, cared not at all for Libyans. It had nothing to do with his lack of nukes.

    Nuclear deterrence is NOT the "ultimate protection." It works on some levels but not others. Did it work to stop the US and USSR from destroying each other? Yes! But this is a distinct circumstance that is not often repeated.

    Did nuclear deterrence protect the US from 9/11 attacks? Did it stop Soviet pilots from engaging American pilots in Korea and Vietnam? Did it protect our troops in Iraq (both times) and in Afghanistan? Did it protect out troops in Bosnia and Mogadishu and Beirut? If a terrorist wanted to set off a homemade nuke (supplied by Iran) dead in the middle of New York, would our Trident missiles protect us?

    Absolutely not.

    If your enemy's most means to attack you is a nuke, then your possession of a nuke is a good deterrent. Otherwise varying circumstances may determine that sometimes nukes work as a deterrent and sometimes not. If Iran built one nuke or even ten, do you honestly think that would stop the US from attacking and destroying those weapons?

    Absolutely not!
    Last edited by EagleAye; 02-02-12 at 10:17 PM.
    Check out my Blog http://momusnews.wordpress.com/
    Sherry's Photography site: http://www.sheywicklundphotos.com/

Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •