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which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

  • There should be no inheritance tax of any amount of money or assets.

    Votes: 64 50.8%

  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 35%.

    Votes: 20 15.9%

  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 50%.

    Votes: 10 7.9%

  • The first 1 million should be exempt. After that the rate should be 50%.

    Votes: 18 14.3%

  • No exempt amount. Tax at 35% from the get-go.

    Votes: 7 5.6%

  • No exempt amount. Tax at 50% from the get-go.

    Votes: 1 0.8%

  • Abolish all inheritance. In other words, tax 100%.

    Votes: 6 4.8%
  • Total voters
    126
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haymarket said:
In a democratic republic such as ours, the opinion of the American people is hardly MORONIC. Why do you need to apply such terms to the normal expression of public opinion? Does it somehow someway bolster you own lack of support?

And yet again, for time beyond calculation, you play the silly ENVY CARD again.
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It is moronic and it is an appeal to envy. And many of us find your devotion to taking more money from people to be rather peculiar
 
MoSurveyor said:
This particular "hurting small business and costing American jobs" speech is beginning to sound a lot like political rhetoric. (They seem to use it for every little thing they're against, whether it's true or not.) Don't get me wrong, it IS a consideration for this discussion but unless your cousins are altruistic or sentimental they will do whatever is in their best interest without a thought for the workers or the company.
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well, yes and no (many of the employees have been with them for years and years; they grew up with their children). But ultimately it is immaterial. How my cousins feel matters not one iota to the fact that the estate tax would force them to break up that business, and whether firing folks makes them miserably sad or deliriously gleeful does not effect at all the fact that the employees shall be fired. the economic result of the estate tax (the lower to upper middle income folks suffer, the uber rich are protected from competition) remains the same irrespective of the feelings involved.
For me this discussion isn't about the added revenue the tax creates
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which is good, because the tax brings in about as much revenue as it costs to collect.
I agree the uber-rich have already staked out certain aristocratic claims but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing or that we should encourage it. In fact, given the tax and a nominal 2.1 children per generation, unless subsequent generations continue to be extremely productive the claims will tend to diminish over time. Sure those heirs may have a home for life along with someone to powder their butt if needed but life-style should not be the concern of society. The accumulation of economic power is a different story as it can be disruptive and is often not in the common good.
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then you are supporting a tax not to fund necessary functions of government, but to tear a certain group of people down.
 
haymarket said:
cpwill

Your latest post contains nothing new. It is but a rehash of tired arguments that have already been thoroughly rebutted and discredited. To repeat the same old tired nonsense about nobody pays those rates, or taxes hurt the little rich guys but not the uber rich guys is just silly rhetoric that has been smashed and trashed repeatedly.

In the end there is one thing you cannot get around with all your right wing rationalizations: the federal government openly discriminates with preferential tax rates allowing people who get money from capital gains and inheritance at far lower rates than the same amount of money in wages.

All of your rhetoric, all of your claims, all of your boasts, and all of your belittling towards me does not change that one iota.

A person who makes a cool million in wages pays over twice what a person making that same amount in capital gains does in income tax and the person who inherits that same million pays NOTHING.

That is the reality that average wage earners are totally fed up with and that is why you see numbers between 60 and 70% supporting increased taxes on the wealthy.
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:) and you are reduced to rant. not even good rant, but rant based upon key assumptions that have been demonstrated multiple times not to exist in the real world.


still waiting to see if you are adult enough to admit you erred in accusations of dishonesty. you're a public union guy, so I'm betting "no", as over the top baseless accusations are more ya'lls stock in trade.
 
haymarket said:
In a democratic republic such as ours, the opinion of the American people is hardly MORONIC. Why do you need to apply such terms to the normal expression of public opinion? Does it somehow someway bolster you own lack of support?
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delighted to hear you say it! so you will now alter your position and agree with the wide majority of Americans who wish to end taxation on inheritances?
 
cpwill said:
:) and you are reduced to rant. not even good rant, but rant based upon key assumptions that have been demonstrated multiple times not to exist in the real world.


still waiting to see if you are adult enough to admit you erred in accusations of dishonesty. you're a public union guy, so I'm betting "no", as over the top baseless accusations are more ya'lls stock in trade.
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So there is no American taxpayer earning dollars from wages who is paying twice what the wealthy are paying on capital gains?

That is so intellectually dishonest that it reeks of outright fraud.
 
cpwill said:
delighted to hear you say it! so you will now alter your position and agree with the wide majority of Americans who wish to end taxation on inheritances?
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And I would do that because......................... because.................. because of what exactly?
 
TurtleDude said:
It is moronic and it is an appeal to envy. And many of us find your devotion to taking more money from people to be rather peculiar
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Again with the all purpose ENVY CARD. You have nothing else so its the perpetual whine of the high school girl "you just hate me because I'm beautiful". That might work on high school kids, but it just looks stupid here.
 
cpwill said:
well, yes and no (many of the employees have been with them for years and years; they grew up with their children). But ultimately it is immaterial. How my cousins feel matters not one iota to the fact that the estate tax would force them to break up that business, and whether firing folks makes them miserably sad or deliriously gleeful does not effect at all the fact that the employees shall be fired. the economic result of the estate tax (the lower to upper middle income folks suffer, the uber rich are protected from competition) remains the same irrespective of the feelings involved.
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All I was saying here was that there is no guarantee the company would survive anyway. Many small businesses go under when the founder dies, often because they are an essential element of the business. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any statistics on small business closures because of inheritance taxes or the death of the founder. Do happen to know of some?
(I can see issues if the threshold gets much lower than $5M - and I would consider raising it - but at this point in time $5M is a pretty large business as is.)

cpwill said:
then you are supporting a tax not to fund necessary functions of government, but to tear a certain group of people down.
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I suppose any kind of regulatory measure could be looked at that way. Certainly any time the EPA wants to institute a new regulation to protect citizen's health many politicians start crying the same thing. "You'll force plant closures and layoffs!" they say. Well, yes, maybe those regulations will force a plant closure if the plant isn't worth the investment required to reach compliance. Is that "tearing down" the business? Yes, many would see it that way. It doesn't change the fact that the regulation is for the long-term good of society.


Also, while looking for stats on the first part I ran across a couple of articles talking about state inheritance tax. Apparently there is concern on that level because those taxes do make up a large chunk of state revenue.
 
cpwill said:
then you are supporting a tax not to fund necessary functions of government, but to tear a certain group of people down.
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BTW - To which group do you refer? An estate is not a person or group and unless the inheritance tax is 100% with no deductions the heirs are being built up.
 
TurtleDude said:
that is true and the only people being taxed unfairly right now are the people the parasitic pimp politicians want to tax even more. the wealthy
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There is 8.5% of the population of America ready and willing to help the people that pay taxes rich and middle class and working poor by paying taxes all they ask in return is a job with a fair wage.

It's not they're begging for bailout money or free grants or bitching and whineing about how much taxes they would have to pay, just JOBS:peace
 
Gary said:
My age isn't any of your business and you need to start sticking to the subject and give up on your ad hom name calling!
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I know the answer to that. lol:peace
 
TurtleDude said:
well that is fine but I suggest you don't make claims in the future that are based on assertions of such
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Gary,
Told ya I knew the answer to post #791.
Oh well back to topic.:peace
 
MoSurveyor said:
BTW - To which group do you refer? An estate is not a person or group and unless the inheritance tax is 100% with no deductions the heirs are being built up.
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I thought the necessary function of government was to the people of America all the people of America.
Didn't know it was to one group and not the other group?

Just how many of these certain groups do we have , how are they rated , and who rates them.:peace
 
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haymarket said:
So there is no American taxpayer earning dollars from wages who is paying twice what the wealthy are paying on capital gains?

That is so intellectually dishonest that it reeks of outright fraud.
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Oh there might be someone with a salary of 20 Million who might be. but they aren't the ones complaining about the dividend tax rate. It tends to be people who are not in danger of ever paying an effective federal income tax rate of 15% let alone 25% (which is about what most of us in the top one percent pay) You don't hear me whining that I pay a higher effective rate than Romney (because I have a higher proportion of my income in salary-which is taxed at 35%-than MR). Its people like you who do it and the rich dems who pander to people who are upset (for no valid reason) that the rich aren't paying AS MUCH a PERCENTAGE as they think the rich should.
 
haymarket said:
Again with the all purpose ENVY CARD. You have nothing else so its the perpetual whine of the high school girl "you just hate me because I'm beautiful". That might work on high school kids, but it just looks stupid here.
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Truth hurts and since the 3-4 people who spend the most time advocating the death tax aren't in any danger of paying it envy or spite has to be the most logical reason
 
presluc said:
Keep dodgeing.:peace
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it is psychobabble. "we the people" cannot possibly be interpreted as stating that the constitution was designed to make people even in economic outcome or create "fairness" based on equivalent outcomes
 
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presluc said:
There is 8.5% of the population of America ready and willing to help the people that pay taxes rich and middle class and working poor by paying taxes all they ask in return is a job with a fair wage.

It's not they're begging for bailout money or free grants or bitching and whineing about how much taxes they would have to pay, just JOBS:peace
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Totally non responsive and worthless as a comment involving my claim that it is the rich who are taxed unfairly. You ranted that the Revolution was started over unfair taxes but you imply that its the poor and middle class being treated unfairly by the tax code which is completely specious given that this thread is about the death tax and it is the rich-who are slapped with this idiotic surcharge -who are treated unfairly
 
TurtleDude said:
Totally non responsive and worthless as a comment involving my claim that it is the rich who are taxed unfairly. You ranted that the Revolution was started over unfair taxes but you imply that its the poor and middle class being treated unfairly by the tax code which is completely specious given that this thread is about the death tax and it is the rich-who are slapped with this idiotic surcharge -who are treated unfairly
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Oh dear goodness life being rich is so rough.
 
winston53660 said:
Oh dear goodness life being rich is so rough.
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and people whine when I claim spite and envy motivates many of the posts from the extreme left.

afflicting the comfortable is not going to help you Winston even if you think it will
 
TurtleDude said:
Oh there might be someone with a salary of 20 Million who might be. but they aren't the ones complaining about the dividend tax rate. It tends to be people who are not in danger of ever paying an effective federal income tax rate of 15% let alone 25% (which is about what most of us in the top one percent pay) You don't hear me whining that I pay a higher effective rate than Romney (because I have a higher proportion of my income in salary-which is taxed at 35%-than MR). Its people like you who do it and the rich dems who pander to people who are upset (for no valid reason) that the rich aren't paying AS MUCH a PERCENTAGE as they think the rich should.
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Actually Turtle, since you like to use the personal as evidence, I paid a higher rate than Romney in two of the last four years, was virtually tied for a third and just a bit lower in the fourth.

And it again is incredible that you see fit to speak for those others who may pay more than both you and Romney.

You and some others here miss the point and it seems you are into a forest and trees situation. The fact is a simple one and an obvious one: wages and salary fo the higher earners are taxed at far higher rates than are long term capital gains. Many who inherit up to five million dollars pay ZERO on it. And we have not even got into the intricate details of Machiavellian schemes like off shore accounts which some like Romney use to reduce their tax burden even further.

The defenders and supporters of the wealthy scream bloody murder when these sort of things get publicity. They do NOT want the average American to be tipped off to how the game is rigged in favor of the wealthy. That is more than evident in threads just like this where some try to make it about CBO statements and not about discriminatory tax rates.

When the rich investor or inheritor pays as much as the million dollar salary earner, then we will have a proper arrangement.
 
TurtleDude said:
and people whine when I claim spite and envy motivates many of the posts from the extreme left.

afflicting the comfortable is not going to help you Winston even if you think it will
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Turtle, you are a bright guy but it seems your ability to recognize sarcasm from Winston is a bit impaired. He was clearly being sarcastic when he made the comment about the rich having it so rough.
 
haymarket said:
Turtle, you are a bright guy but it seems your ability to recognize sarcasm from Winston is a bit impaired. He was clearly being sarcastic when he made the comment about the rich having it so rough.
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I base it on his past history of constantly whining about the rich. As to your post 821-the average person has it great compared to the rich in terms of what they pay vs what they get
 
TurtleDude said:
I base it on his past history of constantly whining about the rich. As to your post 821-the average person has it great compared to the rich in terms of what they pay vs what they get
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Which is why it is deceptive and dishonest to compare the "average person" whatever that is - to "the rich" whatever that is in terms of what they pay and what they get since it is virtually impossible to accurately do that and the individual variance would be so great from case to case and person to person.

This is why I compared three individuals - all earning the same dollar amount of one million dollars - and applied no dedictions to any of them to keep the playing field level and clean - and looked at their tax bite according to the current rules.

We discovered that a salary earner pays $326,000.00 in federal tax on that million in wages or salary.
We discovered that the investor with long term capital gains pays less than half than amount - $150,000.00 in federal income tax on that same one million dollars.
We discovered that the person who inherits pay ZERO in tax on that same one million dollars in federal income tax.

Three stacks of one million dollars that looks the same and spends the same but all three taxed as drastically different levels with the rich benefitting disporportionately from the discriminatory rates.

That is what must be changed.
 
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haymarket said:
Which is why it is deceptive and dishonest to compare the "average person" whatever that is - to "the rich" whatever that is in terms of what they pay and what they get since it is virtually impossible to accurately do that and the individual variance would be so great from case to case and person to person.

This is why I compared three individuals - all earning the same dollar amount of one million dollars - and applied no dedictions to any of them to keep the playing field level and clean - and looked at their tax bite according to the current rules.

We discovered that a salary earner pays $326,000.00 in federal tax on that million in wages or salary.
We discovered that the investor with long term capital gains pays less than half than amount - $150,000.00 in federal income tax on that same one million dollars.
We discovered that the person who inherits pay ZERO in tax on that same one million dollars in federal income tax.

Three stacks of one million dollars that looks the same and spends the same but all three taxed as drastically different levels with the rich benefitting disporportionately from the discriminatory rates.

That is what must be changed.
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why your constantly repeated example fails is its not people making 800K a year whining about the stuff you whine about. its people who are uber billionaires or government teat sucklers who are whining. The former to get the votes of the latter
 
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