View Poll Results: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

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  • There should be no inheritance tax of any amount of money or assets.

    84 54.90%
  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 35%.

    21 13.73%
  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 50%.

    12 7.84%
  • The first 1 million should be exempt. After that the rate should be 50%.

    19 12.42%
  • No exempt amount. Tax at 35% from the get-go.

    9 5.88%
  • No exempt amount. Tax at 50% from the get-go.

    1 0.65%
  • Abolish all inheritance. In other words, tax 100%.

    7 4.58%
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Thread: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

  1. #791
    Educator Gary's Avatar
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    really? really? so edify me newbie how old are you. and this is one of the NEWER forums I have been on
    My age isn't any of your business and you need to start sticking to the subject and give up on your ad hom name calling!

  2. #792
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You must have a reading comprehension problem. I never said they did. I stated that some of our founders supported inheritance and estate taxes. Why are you so dishonest about this?
    you must be suffering from short term memory loss. Specifically you cited the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States and specifically you argued that "the guys who wrote that thing" (refering to your citation of the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States) opposed Turtle's position.

    Here: let me help by quoting the exchange for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude
    ah the old appease the losers with the money of the rich or the losers will riot? sorry, the Constitution was never designed to transfer wealth. Indeed many leftwing critics of the constitution rant that it was designed to preserve class inequality
    establish justice
    preserve domestic tranquility
    promote the general welfare

    The guys who wrote that thing strongly disagree with you.
    I will be accepting your apology for accusations of dishonesty whenever you are adult enough to give it. We shall see.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-07-12 at 01:51 AM.

  3. #793
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The rates I quoted are indeed real and not fantasy.
    no, they aren't. none of them exist in the real world. what does exist in the real world are effective tax rates. in the real world, your claim the wealthy who pay taxes on capital gains are being subsidized through lower rates is not true.

    You do not like that I gave all three examples with no other deductions.
    no, I am fine with that. I do not like that you insist on pretending that such rates actually apply to anyone in the real world when not only do all logic, reason, and law bely the claim; but I have specifically cited the CBO and the IRS demonstrating the degree of falsity in the your claim.

    You might have a point if I took them for one category but not for the others. But my not considering deductions was applied evenly to ALL THREE EXAMPLES
    you are correct. all three examples are equal in the fact that they are all false.

    As has been explained to you time and time again, laws take that into consideration and establish those parameters and definitions. Today there are limits on non taxable gifts. There would be under my proposal also.
    not true, for the simple reason that you assert an artificial value limit to such gifts at which point they become taxable, but you do not apply it to all gifts. College Education, for example, often costs way above the tax free gift limit, as do the annual costs of raising a child; yet you do not wish to tax these and you are unable to explain why. WHY is it different if a Parent gives his 21 year old adult child $48,000 in the form of an education subsidy v giving him $48,000 in the form of an automobile or cash?

    Your argument about destruction is highly selective. If my wealth is in money, I have to "destroy" (to use your word) some of it to pay my tax obligations.
    no, you are missing the issue that was pointed out to you. losing 35% of $8 million dollars does not weaken the value of the next 65%. It does do so when you are taking 35% of an $8 million dollar small business or farm operation; and in the case of the small business, it could easily require it's destruction, and the firing of all of it's employees. You continue to avoid answering the question of why blue-collar employees should suffer so that you can collect more taxes from the grieving families of small business owners.

    That is simple reality and the way things are. So if a person inherits farm land or real estate why should they be any different or in some protected class?
    not at all. we shouldn't tax inheritance. for many reasons, the destruction it wrecks on the portion of our economy that is both most dynamic and creates most of our new jobs being one of them.

    One other poster alleges the same thing. But we have seen nothing to support this claim.
    sure - the uber rich have enough wealth to justify keeping it in trusts, protected by expensive lawyers and accountants. That, for example, is how Buffet protects his wealth from taxation. You think Paris Hilton is going to pay up 35% of her daddy's money minus $5 mil? HAH. No, the only fortunes the current measure destroys are those in the process of being built, which are not yet enough to protect themselves thus. That's how the estate tax protects the uber rich against competition - by securing their fortune against competition which must struggle against a tax burden which it does not face.

  4. #794
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Since anyone with a large enough estate can wrangle their way around estate taxes anyway, I think reform is needed. Why isn't the tax progressive like regular income tax? Why is it this confiscatory flat rate?

    In 2001, the Federal estate tax on $3 million was figured with a $675,000 exemption and then 55% on the remainder. That resulted in a Federal tax of $1,278,750. State taxes vary. If I'm understanding Illinois' estate tax rate, on $3 million, the tax would be 7.5%. For God's sake, that's 62.5%. How nutz is that? We don't tax income that high. Why on earth would we tax the fruits of someone's labor that have already been taxed??

    What the heck gives the government a right to confiscate?? It's thievery.

    So I say exempt a certain amount....I don't know, $3 million...get rid of all of the trust loopholes and tax it progressively with the top rate being certainly no higher than the highest bracket of income tax.

    I think you got a lot of this right, but if you are to call this act "confiscating" and "thievery," then why should it all of a sudden not apply past $3 million?

    The most important question, of course, is this: where does the government get the right to interject itself in a just transfer of resources, especially when those resources have already been taxed? It seems like most miss the fact that the [I]giver[I] of the transaction has a right to give what is his. We are so focused on the side of the recipient of the estate that we forget something: it belonged to someone else, and that someone has every right to give it away. The government has no right to interfere in this gift simply because a transfer is occurring. I find the estate tax very frightening.

    Indeed, I find much of our current tax system unjust, but that is not the topic at hand!

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, you are missing the issue that was pointed out to you. losing 35% of $8 million dollars does not weaken the value of the next 65%. It does do so when you are taking 35% of an $8 million dollar small business or farm operation; and in the case of the small business, it could easily require it's destruction, and the firing of all of it's employees. You continue to avoid answering the question of why blue-collar employees should suffer so that you can collect more taxes from the grieving families of small business owners.
    This particular "hurting small business and costing American jobs" speech is beginning to sound a lot like political rhetoric. (They seem to use it for every little thing they're against, whether it's true or not.) Don't get me wrong, it IS a consideration for this discussion but unless your cousins are altruistic or sentimental they will do whatever is in their best interest without a thought for the workers or the company.


    For me this discussion isn't about the added revenue the tax creates. I agree the uber-rich have already staked out certain aristocratic claims but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing or that we should encourage it. In fact, given the tax and a nominal 2.1 children per generation, unless subsequent generations continue to be extremely productive the claims will tend to diminish over time. Sure those heirs may have a home for life along with someone to powder their butt if needed but life-style should not be the concern of society. The accumulation of economic power is a different story as it can be disruptive and is often not in the common good.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-07-12 at 06:46 AM.

  6. #796
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and so tell me haymarket-what evidence do you have that such a phrase meant death taxes.

    and what founders supported death taxes-how many of them? some of the founders probably supported buggery too. slavery? sure? maybe some were even cross dressers. but as a whole?
    Oh My!!!!

    I have no evidence there ever were taxes on death. But putting aside your favorite neologism, this is pretty simple stuff.

    First of all- Article I says TAXES - plural - taking in lots of different forms of taxes - both known to them as well as those yet to come, providing they were not prohibited by other Constitutional language such as what prevented the income tax at the time. As has already been cited by several people here, estate and inheritance taxes were in existence in many of the states. In addition, many of the founders supported them, rather forcefully and enthusiastically. There is no doubt there was both a legal foundation and constitutional authorization of estate and inheritance taxes. There is also no doubt that many of the Founders supported them as is evident by their own statements which have been reproduced here.

    btw - in addition to state laws, we had a federal law in 1862 - a full half century before the amendment allowing the progressive income tax.
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-07-12 at 07:25 AM.
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    cpwill

    Your latest post contains nothing new. It is but a rehash of tired arguments that have already been thoroughly rebutted and discredited. To repeat the same old tired nonsense about nobody pays those rates, or taxes hurt the little rich guys but not the uber rich guys is just silly rhetoric that has been smashed and trashed repeatedly.

    In the end there is one thing you cannot get around with all your right wing rationalizations: the federal government openly discriminates with preferential tax rates allowing people who get money from capital gains and inheritance at far lower rates than the same amount of money in wages.

    All of your rhetoric, all of your claims, all of your boasts, and all of your belittling towards me does not change that one iota.

    A person who makes a cool million in wages pays over twice what a person making that same amount in capital gains does in income tax and the person who inherits that same million pays NOTHING.

    That is the reality that average wage earners are totally fed up with and that is why you see numbers between 60 and 70% supporting increased taxes on the wealthy.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #798
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    My age isn't any of your business and you need to start sticking to the subject and give up on your ad hom name calling!
    well that is fine but I suggest you don't make claims in the future that are based on assertions of such

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I've been around for more years than you have and this isn't the only political forum on the internet.

    :
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 02-07-12 at 08:30 AM.

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    cpwill

    Your latest post contains nothing new. It is but a rehash of tired arguments that have already been thoroughly rebutted and discredited. To repeat the same old tired nonsense about nobody pays those rates, or taxes hurt the little rich guys but not the uber rich guys is just silly rhetoric that has been smashed and trashed repeatedly.

    In the end there is one thing you cannot get around with all your right wing rationalizations: the federal government openly discriminates with preferential tax rates allowing people who get money from capital gains and inheritance at far lower rates than the same amount of money in wages.

    All of your rhetoric, all of your claims, all of your boasts, and all of your belittling towards me does not change that one iota.

    A person who makes a cool million in wages pays over twice what a person making that same amount in capital gains does in income tax and the person who inherits that same million pays NOTHING.

    That is the reality that average wage earners are totally fed up with and that is why you see numbers between 60 and 70% supporting increased taxes on the wealthy.
    one of the most moronic appeals to "authority" is citing polls which suggest that many people want OTHERS to pay more taxes so they won't have to. That demonstrates why certain people are enamored with the income and death taxes which allow politicians to buy the votes of the many by taking the wealth of the few. The people who most stir this up are those who find a political advantage in appealing to envy or selfishness.

  10. #800
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    one of the most moronic appeals to "authority" is citing polls which suggest that many people want OTHERS to pay more taxes so they won't have to. That demonstrates why certain people are enamored with the income and death taxes which allow politicians to buy the votes of the many by taking the wealth of the few. The people who most stir this up are those who find a political advantage in appealing to envy or selfishness.
    In a democratic republic such as ours, the opinion of the American people is hardly MORONIC. Why do you need to apply such terms to the normal expression of public opinion? Does it somehow someway bolster you own lack of support?

    And yet again, for time beyond calculation, you play the silly ENVY CARD again.
    __________________________________________________ _
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