View Poll Results: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

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  • There should be no inheritance tax of any amount of money or assets.

    84 54.90%
  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 35%.

    21 13.73%
  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 50%.

    12 7.84%
  • The first 1 million should be exempt. After that the rate should be 50%.

    19 12.42%
  • No exempt amount. Tax at 35% from the get-go.

    9 5.88%
  • No exempt amount. Tax at 50% from the get-go.

    1 0.65%
  • Abolish all inheritance. In other words, tax 100%.

    7 4.58%
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Thread: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

  1. #681
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is absurd and now you are embracing the absurd in a woeful attempt to divert from a rational tax plan.

    In the writing of law, what is done is that you accept a basic premise that guides you through the process. In this case we are talking about tax law and meeting the stated desires of the vast majority of Americas who want higher taxes upon the wealthy. I have already provided several national public pinion polls which clearly demonstrate a national support level of between 60% and 70% for this.

    If we look at the main ways today that the wealthy have negated or neutralized or have gotten around the true intent and spirit of progressive tax rates, it pretty punch comes down to two factors
    1- much of their income comes in capital gains which is taxed at 15%
    2- a significant amount of money was transferred to some of them through estate taxes which healthy exemptions built in to that formula

    To assure a national system which incorporates tax justice and gets us back to true progressive rates, these two factors have to be dealt with.

    So we adopt a guiding principle that we take these two and no longer provide special categories for them since they are enriching a persons pocketbook or accounts exactly the same way that other form of income do such as wages or salary.

    So we simply rewrite the tax laws so that capital gains are taxed as normal income according to the applicable schedules. We abolish the current estate tax and simply treat that money and wealth as income and tax it according to the applicable schedules.

    We following the guiding rule that money going into a persons pocket or accounts is income.

    Now you and others want to trot out the strawman of parents feeding children bowl of oatmeal as income or hiring tutors is income or buying a computer as income or buying a book as income and that reeucing this whole thing to absurdity is suppose to validate your idea and negate mine.

    Sorry but that is just nonsense. I strongly suspect that the average American citizens who wants to increase taxes on the wealthy to avoid them getting around the progressive tax schedules knows the difference between
    a- a bowl of oatmeal and millions of dollars in inheritance
    b- a book and millions of dollars in inheritance
    c- a teacher or tutor and millions of dollars in inheritance
    d- a computer and million of dollars in inheritance

    If you do not, I also strongly suspect that there is not one person on the planet capable of making you understand that difference if it is not already obvious to you.

    All those sort of silly objections are easy to deal with in the writing of the law. Todays laws explain what can be taxed and not taxed and any current law can certainly differentiate with normal support for a childs life, gifts than cane be given, and the taxing of true inheritance as income.

    You end with a dramatic DOWN THE PATH YOUR LOGIC LEADS TO MADNESS. Truthfully cp - if you cannot see the actual difference in taxing inheritance income and buying a book for a child, you have already gone a long way down the very path you describe.
    the current tax plan is not rational since it only encourages the majority to demand more government and to demand others pay more for what they want.

  2. #682
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    numerous people have explained to you that your repeated nonsense about these "differences" is specious

    First of all the first all the first guy will only be paying an effective tax rate of around 24% meaning 240K in taxes
    so you are lying when you claim every dollar of his one million is subjected to a 35% tax rate. For someone who is so enamored with the progressive income tax, you don't seem to understand that its only money above around 375K subjected to that rate

    and anyone making that much is going to be investing a bunch of it and he certainly doesn't want those investments subjected to the 40% confiscatory rate you want

    secondly, he will generally have an estate at the time he dies well over the limits your fellow travelers on the left would want to rape with a death tax.

    So your example is both in error patently and in error based on what most people in that group would want
    First, you are wrong. Here are the current tax brackets according to the IRS

    Tax Bracket Married Filing Jointly Single
    10% Bracket $0 – $17,400 $0 – $8,700
    15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700 $8,700 – $35,350
    25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700 $35,350 – $85,650
    28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450 $85,650 – $178,650
    33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350 $178,650 – $388,350
    35% Bracket Over $388,350 Over $388,350

    My example of the person earning one million would indeed find himself in the 35% bracket.

    http://novelinvestor.com/tax-plannin...leased-by-irs/

    Second - your statement about anyone making that amount would be investing is reflective of your own tax strategies and does not apply to all. It is your own opinion based on your own values.

    Third - your statement about his estate at death is again you projecting your own tax strategies and values onto others, You have no idea at all what this person may or may not have at the time of death and may in fact end up with nothing in the way of an estate.

    My example holds.
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-04-12 at 09:17 AM.
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  3. #683
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    haymarket? Am I correct in assuming that your solution would not actually be a tax on the deceased estate but, rather, a tax on the person inheriting the money?

    If so, that essentially pulls the teeth on the "death tax" misnomer.

  4. #684
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Yet you don't want to treat all money coming into someone's pocket the same way, and I don't understand why?
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Perhaps I understand the difference between a bowl of oatmeal and a million dollars.
    They are different things, obviously. But whenever one thing, be it money or in-kind, is given from one to another, the recipient now has more wealth than before, which you have claimed constitutes income for the recipient.

    Now you are refining your original position. Apparently, some forms of wealth transfer are income, while some are not. You keep pointing out that you can distinguish which is which, yet you give us no guideline to help us.

    So, your opinion is that receiving a bowl of oatmeal is not income. Okay. This is the first exception to your general rule. You also claim that receiving a million dollars IS income. This adheres to your rule. So your are carving out exceptions to the general rule of "whenever one receives wealth they have made income." You say the difference is obvious, but you give us no criteria by which to distinguish the two.

    If you are going to arbitrarily say that receiving some forms of wealth IS income while receiving other forms of wealth is NOT income, then you need to explain why. Otherwise, you are doing the exact same thing that you accuse others of doing, namely arbitrarily discriminating between forms of income.

    So, as cpwill has pointed out, either it is legitimate to distinguish between different sorts of wealth transfers (for example distinguishing between wages, gifts, and inheritances) or it is not. Which is it?

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Oh really!?!?!?!? Perhaps you can quote where I said that?
    You said that there is a difference between inheritance and parents giving things to their children.

  6. #686
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Interesting, so you distinguish between a birthday present and an inheritance, despite the fact that both of them result in new money coming into someone's pocket. Can you explain why you see them as different and wish to treat them differently for tax purposes? Who you not simply consider them both income?
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You really do not see the difference between a ordinary regular run of the mill birthday gift and an inheritance of millions of dollars?
    They are both money coming into someone's pocket, which by your own words is income. You have stated that all money coming into someone's pocket should count as income. Would you like to retract this rule?

  7. #687
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Truthfully cp - if you cannot see the actual difference in taxing inheritance income and buying a book for a child, you have already gone a long way down the very path you describe.
    Yet you continue to claim there is a difference, but refuse to tell us exactly why they are different. Why are you afraid to clearly articulate what, in your opinion, makes them different?

  8. #688
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    haymarket? Am I correct in assuming that your solution would not actually be a tax on the deceased estate but, rather, a tax on the person inheriting the money?

    If so, that essentially pulls the teeth on the "death tax" misnomer.
    yes - the person receiving the money would have it taxed as income.
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  9. #689
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Yet you continue to claim there is a difference, but refuse to tell us exactly why they are different. Why are you afraid to clearly articulate what, in your opinion, makes them different?
    No. What I strong suspect is that if you already do not see it, nobody including myself could explain to you the difference in a parent buying a bowl of oatmeal or a book for their child and an inheritance of millions of dollars.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #690
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Gifts are tax free up to I THINK $13,999 but after that...the person who receives the gift has to pay taxes on it...

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