View Poll Results: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

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  • There should be no inheritance tax of any amount of money or assets.

    84 54.90%
  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 35%.

    21 13.73%
  • The first 5 million dollars should be exempt. After that the tax rate should be 50%.

    12 7.84%
  • The first 1 million should be exempt. After that the rate should be 50%.

    19 12.42%
  • No exempt amount. Tax at 35% from the get-go.

    9 5.88%
  • No exempt amount. Tax at 50% from the get-go.

    1 0.65%
  • Abolish all inheritance. In other words, tax 100%.

    7 4.58%
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Thread: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

  1. #1121
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    now that's funny. a supporter of this guy:


    lecturing anyone else about bookkeeping.
    Like you do not know that three are two sides to a bookkeeping ledger?

    Is this some radical new concept unfamiliar to you?
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  2. #1122
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    trying to justify demands that OTHERS pay more of a tax that the poster himself does not pay and is in no danger of paying is hardly patriotism and attempts to justify a desire that others be taxed more out of patriotism is beyond pathetic
    You obviously have no idea what patriotism is when you have to resort to making everything personal and about the individual. Unlike some here who make it obvious they decide everything based on their own personal greed, many of us decide issues of national policy by what is good for a nation for 311 million Americans.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is complete horse****. Rich people spend great deals of money if they are producers or people that have gained their wealth through other avenues. This spending does create jobs fair easier than when poor people spend money. You are forgetting that people don't just buy when they need, they buy when they want, and in essence the more people earn the more they not only spend but need to maintain their lifestyle.
    Your NewsMax pedigree is betraying you. It may take many hundreds of poor people to define a group that has control over as much money as a single rich person, but all of those poor people spend all of the money they get very quickly. They have pressing and immediate needs on a continual basis. Rich people have no such needs. The rich already have everything they need plus everything they want, and they still have large piles of money sitting around. If you give them more money, they have to sit around and think what to do with it. And it's quite likely that what they will eventually decide to do is pull that money right out of the real economy and send it off to the financial economy, where it will spend its time chasing after little pieces of paper while producing exactly no new demand and no new jobs at all. Giving money to rich people is a way to slow down the economy. Giving money to poor people is a way to speed it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol, what? Considering that all the stimuluses has lower returns than otherwise would be noted without it and considering that the bush tax cuts did what they were intended to do what you said is trash.
    The Tax Cuts for the Rich did indeed do exactly what Bush intended them to do. They gave a whole pile of money to people who were already wealthy. In economic terms however, this was a disastrous event and the start of a headlong national decline from one of the all-time high points in our economic history to one of the all-time low points. This astonishing turn-around could not have been accomplished without Bush's idiotic reliance on policies drawn from laissez-faire free-market capitalism as part of an effort to enrich the wealthy and give trickle-down economics a chance to work. The fact that none of this had ever worked in the past simply didn't bother him. Hence, we ended up with a total trainwreck.

    In a contrast that could hardly be any more stark, the targeted stimulus programs contained in ARRA worked alsmot exactly as had been planned and projected for them. Tax cuts and credits were targeted to small businesses and those earning less than $75K per year. Income support in the form of food stamps, UI benefits, and subsidies for COBRA health insurance premiums went to those most affected by the calamity of the Great Bush Recession and hence to those who would spend the funds quickly. (The alternative plan touted by Republicans was more tax cuts for the rich and mega-corporations. I wonder how that would have worked out.) In addiiton to short-term economic stimulus, ARRA provided medium-term support for jobs and incomes by funding more than 90,000 infrastructure jobs all across the country. There were some near you. There was also up-front funding for long-term programs in such areas as communications, health care, energy, and transportation. In combination with efforts to rebalance the financial system, this focused, targeted approach to economic stimulus ended in five months a recession that Bush had not put a dent in in fourteen months and sowed the seeds for the slow but steady recovery that Republicans have been trying to kill ever since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Taxes takes wealth out of the economy andwhat it gives back is less than the wealth took out.
    That's an interesting theory. What's the rationale behind that? Back in the real world meanwhile, because of the progressive income tax structure, tax dollars are withdrawn on average from a relatively high point on the income scale, then exactly the same dollars are immediately spent on average at a relatively lower point on the income scale. Government operations even in ordinary times are therefore mildly redistributive and mildly stimulative. For an average person, some 20-25% of what a few boneheads think of as their own "hard-earned money" comes directly or indirectly from government spending. It doesn't take very many degrees of Kevin Bacon to turn everybody (including TurtleDude) into just another pig feeding at the public trough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Considering that wealth it takes out of the economy is on the top that includes a great deal of small businesses....
    There are almost thirty million small busineses in the US but only about 750K large enough to be affected by increasing taxes on the top two brackets. About half of those are the LLC's that medical doctors have set up for themselves. Most of the rest are similar structures established by successful veterinarians, lawyers, accountants, actors, authors, athletes, hedge fund managers, and even a few economists. These are paper constructs set up for tax and liability purposes. They are not economic engines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    ...it hardly matters if you give more to the poor as the return for investment is not only hurt from the taxes themselves but how they are dealt out.
    I don't think you have the first notion of how it is "dealt out". I bet for instance you wouldn't have had the first clue that ALL of the following combined -- SSI, the EITC, Section 8 housing, the Additional Child Care Credit, TANF, WIC, and S-CHIP -- cost about $15 billion less per year than Military Personnel & Retirement. Oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    As for the later part, motivation for labor and advancement in general is triggered from need of labor and overall want to move forward.
    I'll send this off to the Nobel committee right away. Perhaps discovery of the Theory of Overall Want to Move Forward will seem significant in their eyes. Or not. What you are trying to get at I suppose is incentives, so to test those I'll make you a deal -- I'll give you peanuts per month, but you have to live like a pauper. Sound good? Ready to jump at that? People take that deal only when all the alternatives they have are worse. And as soon as they have better ones again, they back out of the deal. That's how incentives work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Considered that many of these people are already not motivated(keep in mind I didn't say majority here) giving them what they need from the start not only stops them from wanting advancement or discovering a want for advancement but needing advancement. This is basic human nature and works for rich or poor.
    No, this is basic made-up poppycock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I suspect I can keep up with you and I suspect it hasn't done you any good. Many economist believe in trash and you appear to be either one of them or someone that believes in their trash.
    Well, I'm glad you're here. After all, what fun is shooting fish in a barrel if there aren't any fish.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 02-15-12 at 11:50 AM.

  4. #1124
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    This is such an entertaining thread. I hope it doesn't end anytime soon.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    High wages usually pertains to some sort of high demand that is limited. Many of the poor, but not all, have no skills to speak and the abilities they do have are only natural which almost everyone else has. There really is no ability for them to garner higher wages without the market while gaining ground and not simply staying still.
    Wrong argument. There were low- and high-wage workers in 1960, and in 1970, and in 1980. The story is over what has been accidentally and deliberately done to the distribution of them from one end to the other since. This has been an era of ever-tightening concentrations of wealth and power among smaller and smaller circles with more an more people being excluded from either one. That's the issue. Smart and talented people have not gotten any smarter or more talented. Just wealthier and more powerful as members of a smaller and smaller club. Others need not apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Just because you are many, happen to be needed to some degree, or you exist doesn't mean you have what it takes to garner higher wages. Anyway, you're forming an argument that if they disappeared everything would stop, but in essence everything would move on and those jobs would be filled.
    LOL! The point was over what would happen if the OUTPUTS of those low-income jobs weren't provided, not what if it was different people doing them. You uppity and unappreciative types fail to understand just whose shoulders it is that you are standing on. This is one reason why garbage strikes tend to be so effective. They start to drive the message home pretty quickly. Maybe we should cause nothing to happen when you flush the toilet for the next couple of weeks. I bet that would bring a few things to your early attention as well.

  6. #1126
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Like you do not know that three are two sides to a bookkeeping ledger?

    Is this some radical new concept unfamiliar to you?
    Its important for them to refuse to acknowledge that the only time in the last 30 years we have significantly reduced the deficit is when military spending was less and tax rates for the rich were higher.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #1127
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its important for them to refuse to acknowledge that the only time in the last 30 years we have significantly reduced the deficit is when military spending was less and tax rates for the rich were higher.
    I think you just violated some restriction on bringing up actual evidence from the historical record.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the thought of a tax system that would prevent politicians pandering to the many because the many would face the same percentage tax increases as the rich scares the crap out of leftwing politicians
    The notions of right-wingers do shock many among the normal, but that's a long way from fear. A politician's job meanwhile is to represent the interests of his or her constituents. Those from Maine will try to advance conditions in the lobster industry, those from the Orlando area will have special concerns for tourism, and the Kansas ones will be all about farming. In addition of course, many groups have organized into publcity and lobbying groups to further their own interests and urge Congress to adopt their policy ideas -- the National Association of Realtors, the National Association of Manufacturers, the US Chamber of Commerce, the list goes on and on. But the only group that actually sought to lobby on behalf of the poor was ACORN, and of course, vindictive right-wingers mounted a vicious smear campaign agianst them, eventually hiring some amoral goofball to produce and then doctor videotapes to use in a completely phony effort to wipe them off the map. Your notion that politicians are being either elected or dictated to by welfare recipients is in such light even more appallingly vapid that the usual right-wing bit of shock therapy.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the people plotting to steal money out of my and others wallets tend to be rich control freaks
    So go occupy something of theirs. Let them know how you feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the death tax is an abomination that is based purely on an appeal to spite or envy
    No, it's based on keeping people from being born on third base and thinking they hit a triple. There is no room in this country for a permanent wealth and power class based on bloodline. Nobody is against passing the fruits of one's actual labor on to the next generation. We all do that. But how many kids deserve to have tens or hundreds of million stuffed in their pockets before they so much as walk out the door? None, that's how many.

  9. #1129
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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Funny that I never mentioned the credit crisis but you jump to a conclusions on what I think. You might not want to take notice of the fact but capitalism isn't what started it all and surely isn't what ended it all by itself but all of this is a different issue.
    It was and is the same issue, as the point that you proposed to object to was over the causitive linkage between boneheaded laissez-faire free-market capitalism and the credit crisis that resulted from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Well that is great, but I wrote it clear enough.
    Did you mean clearLY enough?

    [QUOTE=Henrin;1060203419]
    Is this really all you have as someone that is trained in this sort of thing? What I said is not new and anyone that is trained in economics should understand what I am talking about perfectly. If you don't, you need to go back to school.
    {/quote]
    Indeed, I would HAVE to go back. It doesn't appear that some here have been for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Whether you realize it or not you can't treat the ability for money of changing hands as if job creation is solely connected to this mechanic as you will find you are ignoring the human aspect of economic theory which always results in bad outcomes. Live and learn, eh?
    There is no "human aspect" that corresponds to anything you are saying. Even when it is not couched in indecipherable verbiage, what you claim is baseless, worthless tripe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If anything, telling me money changes hands and this "CAN" (thanks for leaving it out) create jobs is not ground breaking and its meaningless statement by itself.
    Of course it's not groundbreaking. It's a basic macro fundamental -- that you had to have explained to you.

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    Re: which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, I hadn't thought of it that way, because I'm hardwired against that level of stupidity.
    Your brain is hardwired agaisnt recognizing that if post offices and post roads were not paid for exclusively by the wealthy and well-educated, but it was only they who benefitted from them, a transfer of wealth must have occurred??? That would put you into a very bad situation indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Fine. You made statements you can't support. That is the record.
    The statements are supported by all of human history and anthrpology. The record will show only that someone was unwilling to lift even a single finger for the purpose of his own edification. He expected it all to be spoon-fed to him, otherwise prefering to remain obdurately mired in total ignorance of the relevant facts and history.

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