View Poll Results: What is GITMO about?

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  • GITMO is a fine prison.

    26 40.63%
  • GITMO is a fine GULAG.

    10 15.63%
  • The UN is lying.

    23 35.94%
  • GITMO reflects contemporary USA mores.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO upholds the finest standards of USA Justice.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO is a continuing embarrassment.

    27 42.19%
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Thread: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

  1. #271
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post

    I agree with your disagreement MrV, but only on a technicality__We should endeavor to give our warriors the benefit of the doubt, especially when judging them from the safety of our homes.

    As I stated above, we are literally writing the manual on how to fight a war on terror as we go along and we must have faith in our military who deal with the extreme emotions and dangers of a very stressful mission.
    Does 20 years in the Army count? These were National Guard Interrogators or possibly Iraqis who murdered Delamar. We do not murder prisoners. Ever. The warrior ethic shuns such excesses. I do understand someone who kills beyond necessity during combat operations. Sitting in a secure prison in Baghdad is not quite the same thing.

    Beating a prisoner to death is never acceptable.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So the ends justify the means?

    The adherence to freedom and liberty is not worth sacrifice of those ideals.
    That's what it really is about, isn't it? Some people think the ends justify the means, and it's no problem to sacrifice our most basic ideals the moment an enemy pops up. But it is. And the ends never justify the means in any sound ethical system.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post

    I can't imagine how the United States could ever benefit from an evil corrupt organization such as the United Nations which views western civilization as an obstacle to it's global agenda.
    Nevertheless occasionally we do accomplish more with them than without them. But in general I believe we should give them a year to pack up and move out. France, I think, would love to have them.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    That's what it really is about, isn't it? Some people think the ends justify the means, and it's no problem to sacrifice our most basic ideals the moment an enemy pops up. But it is. And the ends never justify the means in any sound ethical system.
    Can't be the Shining City on the Hill by sacrificing the ideals and resolve that got us there. No sir.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So the ends justify the means?

    The adherence to freedom and liberty is not worth sacrifice of those ideals.
    What?

    Explain.

  6. #276
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Can't be the Shining City on the Hill by sacrificing the ideals and resolve that got us there. No sir.
    You know, some really don't understand this. For too many, ideals are just a hobby, something we have only when it's convenient to have them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Let's assume you are completely right and two men were murdered. Tens of thousands were detained and released. A few hundreds who were deceptive or lied were detained. In years of war you have two murders and a few hundred detained. That sounds like a pretty good record to me. Has there ever been a war with so few murdered?
    I'm sorry, but that doesn't excuse breaking our laws and ideals to do such evil and horrible things. You have set a low bar, to be sure. And a bar you really wouldn't accept in anyone dealing with our people.

    But we're also not talking about a traditional war. We're talking about people pulled off the street. The cab driver was working and not firing at or fighting us. We just pulled him off the street. The fellow from Canada wasn't even over there at all.

    Like I said, you set a low bar, and are too willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior for not other reason than it is done by your team.


    BTW, I'm exactly correct on those killed and tortured. Sadly.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #278
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If the UN is evil and corrupt, it is important to remember, we are largely the UN.

    "We are largely" the UN's cash cow__nothing more - nothing less.

    They should be booted out of the US and declared a threat to America and an enemy of freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So the ends justify the means?

    The adherence to freedom and liberty is not worth sacrifice of those ideals.
    Oh really?__Congress and the Executive Office have been enacting totalitarian laws that nullify constitutional "freedom and liberty" which they claim is to protect us from terrorism__Do you also object to this "sacrifice of ideals"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Does 20 years in the Army count? These were National Guard Interrogators or possibly Iraqis who murdered Delamar. We do not murder prisoners. Ever. The warrior ethic shuns such excesses. I do understand someone who kills beyond necessity during combat operations. Sitting in a secure prison in Baghdad is not quite the same thing.

    Beating a prisoner to death is never acceptable.
    If the interrogators story conflicts with the charges, I will give them the benefit of the doubt rather than an agenda driven left-wing media and cowardly self-serving politicians who would sacrifice their own mother to improve their public image in the eyes of the world and their electorate.
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    "We are largely" the UN's cash cow__nothing more - nothing less.

    They should be booted out of the US and declared a threat to America and an enemy of freedom.
    That's quite incorrect. We have huge sway with the UN. being a "cash cow" as you say gives us quite a bit of pull at the table. If nearly any other nation would have done what we did with Iraq, they would have faced much from the UN. See Iraq as an example of that. Remember, Iraq said Kuwait was a threat. Our claim was no more true than their.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sorry, but that doesn't excuse breaking our laws and ideals to do such evil and horrible things. You have set a low bar, to be sure. And a bar you really wouldn't accept in anyone dealing with our people.
    No one said it did. When soldiers break laws they are prosecuted. I believe you are simply anti-American and certainly anti-US military. That much is clear.

    But we're also not talking about a traditional war. We're talking about people pulled off the street. The cab driver was working and not firing at or fighting us. We just pulled him off the street. The fellow from Canada wasn't even over there at all.
    Yeah? So, what, exactly?

    Like I said, you set a low bar, and are too willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior for not other reason than it is done by your team.
    See? Anti-American. You fail to note the context.

    BTW, I'm exactly correct on those killed and tortured. Sadly.

    In what way?

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