View Poll Results: What is GITMO about?

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64. You may not vote on this poll
  • GITMO is a fine prison.

    26 40.63%
  • GITMO is a fine GULAG.

    10 15.63%
  • The UN is lying.

    23 35.94%
  • GITMO reflects contemporary USA mores.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO upholds the finest standards of USA Justice.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO is a continuing embarrassment.

    27 42.19%
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Thread: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

  1. #261
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Why then the expansion and continued use of black ops prisons for 3+ years by the CURRENT administration? Could it be that maybe just maybe, the act of combating terrorism in the international realm doesnt quite WORK the same way with terrorists and enemy combatants in the mountains of Pakistan as they do in say...Cleveland? Of course...if you arent merely a mindless partisan hack, you COULD just accept that Obama must be as corrupt as you perceive Bush...but...I doubt that will happen...
    That's a huge assumption. Can any produce any evidence to support your assumption?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I didn't vote in the poll because you didn't have a selection that described Gitmo as an unfortunate necessity brought about by the War on Terror.

    Anyway, in response to Mr. Pillay...perhaps he would accept these prisoners into his own country and, if they are released, he would personally take responsibility and recompense all victims of these terrorist's action.

    If not, then he should just STFU.
    Oh please, if there's any reasonable evidence to suggest that these people are all terrorists then prove it as such in a court of law. That my friend is justice, and that is exactly what the American constitution promises to uphold. Gitmo is a disgrace, breaches international law clearly and I was sincerely hoping that Obama would be successful in closing it down.

  3. #263
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    I will ask you also. Why would giving them a trial be so difficult/objectionable that you would prefer to kill innocent people? Organised crime in the U.S has killed far more people, and yet even during the 1930s they where still even trials before being killed. Christ even Eichmann got a fair trial, why don't these people deserve one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    OK lets assume for the sake of argument that its inevitable that innocent people get caught up, why not give them a trial to determine those who are innocent from those who are not? I can't for the life of me understand what is so objectionable about such a common sense procedure.
    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    These detainees are prisoners of war.
    The war must be settled and the prisoners returned to their native land.
    No trials.
    I have to agree with earthworm__I'm no authority on US and international laws regarding war, but I don't believe POWs normally receive a trial unless they are charged with a war crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They may be de facto prisoners of war, but they aren't called that. The government made up a new name, "enemy combatants", meaning that they aren't covered by the Geneva Accords.
    The dynamics of the war on terror is like nothing the US military has ever had to deal with__They're literally writing the manual as they go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Though the point that everyone seems to be missing is that alot of them are neither, because they are in fact completely innocent

    Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison | World news | The Guardian
    Sorry Red, but you and your source are blinded by an extremely anti-America, liberal bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    We've bragged and pride ourselves on "the rule of law" and when push came to shove, we ignored our base principles. The war began with lies, fed on lies, and what survives is lies. OBL is dead. What the hell are we doing in Afghanistan? How could we have sunk so low as to ally with Pakistan, the financiers behind Mohammmed Atta? I'm afraid I view the war on terrorists as a big corporate money grab for connected (politically) contractors. The enemy should have been the Pakistani ISI from step one.
    "Pride ourselves on the rule of law"???__Surely you must be joking Dave!

    We have a congress that makes policy in violation of the Constitution and ratified by a President who also refuses to enforce federal immigration laws and punishes states that attempt to enforce them locally and a populace that doesn't appear to know what to do about an out of control runaway government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    And yet you still manage to put people on trial............
    I don't believe we can compare the war on drugs to the war on terror, at least not with a straight face__peaches and pears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I have to disagree with you. He was murdered. Collateral damage is an explanation for what happens when a legitimate military target is struck by military weapons. Sometimes those who have no part in the war are injured or killed. We regret it.

    Delawar was murdered. Murders are not collateral damage. Now had he died of a heart attack during questioning I would agree with collateral damage. But he was beaten, essentially to death. And that is murder. Even in war.
    I agree with your disagreement MrV, but only on a technicality__We should endeavor to give our warriors the benefit of the doubt, especially when judging them from the safety of our homes.

    As I stated above, we are literally writing the manual on how to fight a war on terror as we go along and we must have faith in our military who deal with the extreme emotions and dangers of a very stressful mission.

    To be quite frank, we should be very cautious about demonizing those on the front lines in times of war concerning issues of morality__Demanding morality of war is as futile as attempting to marry oil and water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I think this is naive. The UN is a tool. It is nothing more. When it is useful we use it. When it is not we do what must be done. It is mostly a collection of tyrants and thugs.
    I can't imagine how the United States could ever benefit from an evil corrupt organization such as the United Nations which views western civilization as an obstacle to it's global agenda.
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  4. #264
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    If the UN is evil and corrupt, it is important to remember, we are largely the UN.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #265
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If the UN is evil and corrupt, it is important to remember, we are largely the UN.

    Well our government is certainly trending down the evil and corrupt path.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Reprieve is a very well respected organisation, I don't believe they have ever been called into question as far as facts are concerned.
    I cannot speak to whether they are respected or not. Nor can I tell who respects them. Given that you are citing them I assume that they are well respected by leftists, and perhaps the farther left the more likely the respect.

    The man being interviewed has worked for many of the detainiess and their families.
    I suppose those who are unlawful enemy combatants will try to get out any way they can.

    And we know that many of these people (for examples those that have been released after years of torture) where/are innocent because the U.S government has admitted this was the case.
    You significantly weaken your argument by claiming there was torture at all, let alone years of torture. I would be far more comfortable with your argument if you said you believe rather than "we know..."

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There was another fellow with him. You look that up. Both were killed. We can speak of the Canadian with the wrong name who was taken through rendition and send to be tortured. HE too was innocent. The more we look, the more we fine.
    Let's assume you are completely right and two men were murdered. Tens of thousands were detained and released. A few hundreds who were deceptive or lied were detained. In years of war you have two murders and a few hundred detained. That sounds like a pretty good record to me. Has there ever been a war with so few murdered?

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Let's assume you are completely right and two men were murdered. Tens of thousands were detained and released. A few hundreds who were deceptive or lied were detained. In years of war you have two murders and a few hundred detained. That sounds like a pretty good record to me. Has there ever been a war with so few murdered?
    So the ends justify the means?

    The adherence to freedom and liberty is not worth sacrifice of those ideals.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikertrash View Post
    Attachment 67122978

    President Obama signed executive orders Thursday directing the Central Intelligence Agency to shut what remains of its network of secret prisons and ordering the closing of the Guantánamo detention camp within a year.

    Obama Orders Secret Prisons and Detention Camps Closed - NYTimes.com
    If you read he postponed the hard decisions. What you saw was a photo-op. He is a propagandist.

    Or if you are a bit more honest, he lied to his supporters.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    so, at least some of the enemy combatants are not unlawful combatants.

    In fact, some of them are not combatants at all.

    Yet, we made up a new term which means that they don't have the rights of accused criminals nor of prisoners of war.

    How sad that any freedom loving American would tolerate such actions from our government.
    Have you ever been stopped by the police? Were you detained until they could determine whether or not you had committed a crime?

    We detained tens of thousands of Iraqis and others during the Iraq phase of the war. All but a few hundred were interrogated and released. Had they been complying with the laws of land warfare they would be prisoners of war. But they didn't. So they will remain in custody until they die or the war is over.

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