View Poll Results: What is GITMO about?

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  • GITMO is a fine prison.

    26 40.63%
  • GITMO is a fine GULAG.

    10 15.63%
  • The UN is lying.

    23 35.94%
  • GITMO reflects contemporary USA mores.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO upholds the finest standards of USA Justice.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO is a continuing embarrassment.

    27 42.19%
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Thread: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

  1. #251
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If you changed that to unlawful combatant or unlawful enemy combatant I could agree with you. They are not covered by the Geneva Conventions. Too bad.
    Where there is no law, there is evil. No people are outside the law, if we are in fact moral people who believe in rule of law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Well, who else would you like to discuss?
    There was another fellow with him. You look that up. Both were killed. We can speak of the Canadian with the wrong name who was taken through rendition and send to be tortured. HE too was innocent. The more we look, the more we fine.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Well, Vietnam is a nation state, and we were fighting at least half of it at one time. Other than that, the war against Iraq is very similar: We are trying to win hearts and minds and establish democracy through war, which is much like trying to prevent forest fires with gasoline, we were fighting a guerrilla war in which it was difficult to tell who was an enemy and who wasn't, and it was a war that we should never have started in the first place.

    The war on drugs is a war on something that isn't a nation state. That one is going badly as well.
    Agreed!!

    I'd like to add this to the discussion. It might interest some:

    Philip Zimbardo: Why ordinary people do evil ... or do good - YouTube

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #254
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Your story may have some truths in it but it might not. For example there is this tidbit, "More than two years after President Obama ordered the closure of the prison, 172 are still held there."

    If the one term Marxist president Barack Hussein Obama had ordered the facility closed it would, in fact, be closed. Your story may be a propaganda piece.
    -22obama-600-jpg

    President Obama signed executive orders Thursday directing the Central Intelligence Agency to shut what remains of its network of secret prisons and ordering the closing of the Guantánamo detention camp within a year.

    Obama Orders Secret Prisons and Detention Camps Closed - NYTimes.com

  5. #255
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    I remember this signing and the talk of trying them in New York State courts that followed. As soon as they got their collective heads out of their rectums, they realized that no evidence collected as a result of torture would be admissable. KSM would go free in a New York court. Ergo, they need Guantanamo and a mililtary tribunal to get a conviction. I believe that is why Obama did not close GITMO. He's trapped by the previous administration's ineptitude.

  6. #256
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    OBL is dead. What the hell are we doing in Afghanistan?
    The same thing we were doing in Iraq for seven years, trying to stabilized things enough to let go of the last card, hoping it'll stay standing long enough for us to get out.
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    How could we have sunk so low as to ally with Pakistan ... ?
    Because there were damn few choices for a supply line; Three former SSR's (all of which have a really long supply line), Iran, China, and Pakistan.
    Also, they don't complain quite as much when we carry out military operations inside their country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    OK lets assume for the sake of argument that its inevitable that innocent people get caught up, why not give them a trial to determine those who are innocent from those who are not? I can't for the life of me understand what is so objectionable about such a common sense procedure.
    This wasn't some family feud, it was war. Evidence for courts cannot be collected and actions cannot be judged in the same light. As I wrote, "Who is innocent in such a war?" I know it sounds harsh, I know it sounds inhumane, that's because we were raised in civil society and have no clue. Guerrilla warfare is an ugly business, much more so than any codified warfare. By it's very nature guerrilla warfare is all or nothing.
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  7. #257
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by kenvin View Post
    Either we are part of the U.N. and care what it thinks or not. I am certainly tired of politician saying we need to enforce U.N. resolutions as a reason to justify wars we want to fight while saying the U.N. is threatening our government and we should ignore it when it points out what we do wrong.
    What UN resolution is the US violating at GITMO?
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  8. #258
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Originally Posted by Red_Dave
    You deny that innocent people have been imprisoned?
    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    No. I deny that the Guardian got the story right.
    so, at least some of the enemy combatants are not unlawful combatants.

    In fact, some of them are not combatants at all.

    Yet, we made up a new term which means that they don't have the rights of accused criminals nor of prisoners of war.

    How sad that any freedom loving American would tolerate such actions from our government.
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    so, at least some of the enemy combatants are not unlawful combatants.

    In fact, some of them are not combatants at all.

    Yet, we made up a new term which means that they don't have the rights of accused criminals nor of prisoners of war.

    How sad that any freedom loving American would tolerate such actions from our government.
    Very sad indeed. Very sad.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #260
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I remember this signing and the talk of trying them in New York State courts that followed. As soon as they got their collective heads out of their rectums, they realized that no evidence collected as a result of torture would be admissable. KSM would go free in a New York court. Ergo, they need Guantanamo and a mililtary tribunal to get a conviction. I believe that is why Obama did not close GITMO. He's trapped by the previous administration's ineptitude.
    Why then the expansion and continued use of black ops prisons for 3+ years by the CURRENT administration? Could it be that maybe just maybe, the act of combating terrorism in the international realm doesnt quite WORK the same way with terrorists and enemy combatants in the mountains of Pakistan as they do in say...Cleveland? Of course...if you arent merely a mindless partisan hack, you COULD just accept that Obama must be as corrupt as you perceive Bush...but...I doubt that will happen...

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