View Poll Results: What is GITMO about?

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  • GITMO is a fine prison.

    26 40.63%
  • GITMO is a fine GULAG.

    10 15.63%
  • The UN is lying.

    23 35.94%
  • GITMO reflects contemporary USA mores.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO upholds the finest standards of USA Justice.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO is a continuing embarrassment.

    27 42.19%
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Thread: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

  1. #221
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Yeah, no one would protest that
    I doubt they would actually. Out of sight, out of mind. Its not as if the people protesting actually give a **** about the people held in GITMO and its damn sure not like they are protesting Obama's use of black ops prisons. As soon as Obama acted, the message would be...why...they HAD to be transferred to preserve the worlds security from the dangerous criminals Bush has made them.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    These detainees are prisoners of war.
    The war must be settled and the prisoners returned to their native land.
    No trials.
    They may be de facto prisoners of war, but they aren't called that. The government made up a new name, "enemy combatants", meaning that they aren't covered by the Geneva Accords.
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They may be de facto prisoners of war, but they aren't called that. The government made up a new name, "enemy combatants", meaning that they aren't covered by the Geneva Accords.
    Though the point that everyone seems to be missing is that alot of them are neither, because they are in fact completely innocent

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ift-lid-prison
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 02-25-12 at 12:17 PM.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They may be de facto prisoners of war, but they aren't called that. The government made up a new name, "enemy combatants", meaning that they aren't covered by the Geneva Accords.
    To be fair, our gov't didn't anticipate having to fight an enemy that wasn't a formally part of an established nation state. It was relatively unprecedented. If there was a precedent for it, please inform me of it and I will admit my ignorance of it.
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  5. #225
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Though the point that everyone seems to be missing is that alot of them are neither, because they are in fact completely innocent

    Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison | World news | The Guardian
    Unfortunately, this is what happens when one or both sides resorts to guerrilla warfare. Guerrillas are typically supported by the local population and are inter-mixed with them, in affect using the population as camouflage to hide their movements and supply lines. There is an intrinsic downside to this kind of warfare, which you've just pointed out. Sometimes "innocent" people are mistaken as hostiles, though one must also ask, "Who is innocent in such a war?" When the population at large allows the guerrillas to operate in their neighborhoods, does this not make them culpable as well?


    Mind you, I did not support the war in Iraq so don't bother slamming me with the anti-Iraq arguments. It was flawed from the get-go and we've known it since Bush Sr decided Baghdad wasn't worth the price of a decade-long war. He listened to his generals, I wish his son had done the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    To be fair, our gov't didn't anticipate having to fight an enemy that wasn't a formally part of an established nation state. It was relatively unprecedented. If there was a precedent for it, please inform me of it and I will admit my ignorance of it.
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  6. #226
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    To be fair, our gov't didn't anticipate having to fight an enemy that wasn't a formally part of an established nation state. It was relatively unprecedented. If there was a precedent for it, please inform me of it and I will admit my ignorance of it.
    We've bragged and pride ourselves on "the rule of law" and when push came to shove, we ignored our base principles. The war began with lies, fed on lies, and what survives is lies. OBL is dead. What the hell are we doing in Afghanistan? How could we have sunk so low as to ally with Pakistan, the financiers behind Mohammmed Atta? I'm afraid I view the war on terrorists as a big corporate money grab for connected (politically) contractors. The enemy should have been the Pakistani ISI from step one.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Unfortunately, this is what happens when one or both sides resorts to guerrilla warfare. Guerrillas are typically supported by the local population and are inter-mixed with them, in affect using the population as camouflage to hide their movements and supply lines. There is an intrinsic downside to this kind of warfare, which you've just pointed out. Sometimes "innocent" people are mistaken as hostiles, though one must also ask, "Who is innocent in such a war?" When the population at large allows the guerrillas to operate in their neighborhoods, does this not make them culpable as well?


    Mind you, I did not support the war in Iraq so don't bother slamming me with the anti-Iraq arguments. It was flawed from the get-go and we've known it since Bush Sr decided Baghdad wasn't worth the price of a decade-long war. He listened to his generals, I wish his son had done the same.

    Vietnam
    OK lets assume for the sake of argument that its inevitable that innocent people get caught up, why not give them a trial to determine those who are innocent from those who are not? I can't for the life of me understand what is so objectionable about such a common sense procedure.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 02-25-12 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Vietnam
    Well, Vietnam is a nation state, and we were fighting at least half of it at one time. Other than that, the war against Iraq is very similar: We are trying to win hearts and minds and establish democracy through war, which is much like trying to prevent forest fires with gasoline, we were fighting a guerrilla war in which it was difficult to tell who was an enemy and who wasn't, and it was a war that we should never have started in the first place.

    The war on drugs is a war on something that isn't a nation state. That one is going badly as well.
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Well, Vietnam is a nation state, and we were fighting at least half of it at one time. Other than that, the war against Iraq is very similar: We are trying to win hearts and minds and establish democracy through war, which is much like trying to prevent forest fires with gasoline, we were fighting a guerrilla war in which it was difficult to tell who was an enemy and who wasn't, and it was a war that we should never have started in the first place.

    The war on drugs is a war on something that isn't a nation state. That one is going badly as well.
    And yet you still manage to put people on trial............

  10. #230
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    nothing good has come of it....
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